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Ivan The Awesome

One thing is clear, the brass is giving Shula the benefit of the doubt.

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32 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

Shula might not have had the necessary personnel but that doesn't excuse the lack of in-game adjustments that cost us multiple games this season.

We didn't.lose games due to poor adjustments nearly as much as we lost by poor defense especially early in the year. But let's focus on Shula. McDermott didn't have his personnel either but why aren't we castigating him due to poor in game adjustments.

Maybe if you don't have the right folks to run your scheme, there is only so much you can do...... This is the NFL not high school ball. All coaches are smart and make adjustments on every series and often every play.

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3 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

If the only reason Shula can't evolve his offense as an OC is we didn't have a second TE, then that's says far more about his abilities than anything. What if we had gotten a second TE and he had gotten hurt? Would we have just thrown away our entire season because the second TE got injured and Shula couldn't evolve? I'm sorry, but Shula couldn't evolve his offense because we didn't pick up a second TE is a piss poor excuse for his failure as an OC. That's his freaking job. 

 

We couldn't evolve the offense because we had multiple injuries to linemen and rarely had the same guys out there 2 weeks in a row. When you have to focus on the basics and building chemistry each week you can't focus on evolving when you are just surviving.

Show me one other offense starting lineman who were on the streets 2 weeks earlier  ( were down to their  third center with neither tackle starting  at their designated position ) coupled with a bottom five receiver group that finished in the top 10 in 2016. 

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11 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

We didn't.lose games due to poor adjustments nearly as much as we lost by poor defense especially early in the year. But let's focus on Shula. McDermott didn't have his personnel either but why aren't we castigating him due to poor in game adjustments.

Maybe if you don't have the right folks to run your scheme, there is only so much you can do...... This is the NFL not high school ball. All coaches are smart and make adjustments on every series and often every play.

McDermott and Rivera got plenty of flack for the defensive woes earlier this season. Poor defense definitely played a part in letting teams come back in games we had solid leads in. But a big part of that was going 3 and out in many crucial late game possessions due to predictable run-run-pass gameplan.

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You make adjustments based on what your given. If you try the same things with different personell and not scheming based on your team's strengths and weaknesses then your a bad OC period. You can flaunt injuries all you want but he's been like this his entire career. 

Not using the injury excuse, we do not have the personal to counter what teams threw at us last year. I'm still waiting to hear the magically adjustments the offense could make last year to improve?

We had missed fgs, players having turnovers in the most crucial moments, drops and poor route running, piss poor blocking whether pass blocking or run blocking. These alone cause 5 losses last year off the top of my head and are not the oc fault. Not to mention multiple times Cam took a sack that knocked us out of fg range. Overall performance of the offense was unacceptable, and to pin that on one guy is just not logical IMO


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13 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

McDermott and Rivera got plenty of flack for the defensive woes earlier this season. Poor defense definitely played a part in letting teams come back in games we had solid leads in. But a big part of that was going 3 and out in many crucial late game possessions due to predictable run-run-pass gameplan.

Again who is in charge of changing plays if he thinks they are too predictable? And it isn't Shula........

Do the think being behind might have impacted how we ran plays and whether we could run or had to pass.?

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3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Again who is in charge of changing plays if he thinks they are too predictable? And it isn't Shula........

Do the think being behind might have impacted how we ran plays and whether we could run or had to pass.?

My beef with Shula (and Rivera) is how scared the offensive playcalling is whenever we have a lead in the 2nd half. Like Munnerlyn said, the Panthers aren't built to come back from a big deficit.

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My beef with Shula (and Rivera) is how scared the offensive playcalling is whenever we have a lead in the 2nd half. Like Munnerlyn said, the Panthers aren't built to come back from a big deficit.

I'm starting to think that's all Rivera


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55 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

My beef with Shula (and Rivera) is how scared the offensive playcalling is whenever we have a lead in the 2nd half. Like Munnerlyn said, the Panthers aren't built to come back from a big deficit.

Are you talking 2015 or 2016. I hate the taking the foot off the gas. But it did result in 15 wins in 2015 and he went for it more times in 2015 than any other coach.

If you are talking 2016, I couldn't tell with the injuries, poor execution and likely poor play calling which was the biggest problem

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1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Yeah because he didn't revamp the whole offense in 2015 to account for KB going down and totally change the running game. But he can't do it and never has even though he did it and we had the number 1 offense in the league.

But keep on making things up. You are doing great....

He did? He changed the offense? Man I had no idea watching those games. The high scoring offense was in very close games sometimes big scores from the defense too. Unlike last year those close games went for us but it was the same kind of scheme. 

But let's say he did. Ok then why after losing to the falcons in the same way we lost to the broncos that year we did nothing to address the issue? Where was this change in offence at the end when you SAW a team get to Cam and win. Why didn't Shula give Remmers help, or run plays that stops the crazy blitz they kept doing? We lost the biggest game because of the offense and a large part of that was Shula and there's zero things you can say to change it. Our defense was a powerhouse and played way to much because our offense couldn't stay on the field. And it was a big part attributed to Shula.

We were 6-10 and had plenty of 3 point games were it coulda gone either way. Same as our 15-1 season but they went our way. 

I hope he can evolve and your right but if not he and Ron are gone and I hate it. 

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7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Are you talking 2015 or 2016. I hate the taking the foot off the gas. But it did result in 15 wins in 2015 and he went for it more times in 2015 than any other coach.

If you are talking 2016, I couldn't tell with the injuries, poor execution and likely poor play calling which was the biggest problem

It was a problem in 2015 but winning covers up the fact that we nearly blew a bunch of multiple touchdown leads. 

2016- blew 10pt lead in 4th quarter vs Broncos, blew 17pt lead vs Chiefs, blew 8pt lead against the Raiders by punting on 4th and 1 near midfield.

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1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:


Not using the injury excuse, we do not have the personal to counter what teams threw at us last year. I'm still waiting to hear the magically adjustments the offense could make last year to improve?

We had missed fgs, players having turnovers in the most crucial moments, drops and poor route running, piss poor blocking whether pass blocking or run blocking. These alone cause 5 losses last year off the top of my head and are not the oc fault. Not to mention multiple times Cam took a sack that knocked us out of fg range. Overall performance of the offense was unacceptable, and to pin that on one guy is just not logical IMO


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I'm not pinning it on one guy but the things that screwed us should be addressed except one area. Pass blocking can be fixed, route running too, new blood and better players. Here's the thing we arnt changing our OC or even Dorsey and that worries the crap outta me. Because I haven't seen anything in all his years that would make me think he's a great OC. You can point to 15-1 or 12-4 all you want but all I see is 7-8-1, 6-10. Until I see us go all the way and actually WIN it then I'm not going to be swayed. 

Maybe that's unfair but it's the only thing not changed and if we dont stay competitive and don't have this up and down every year cycle I'll continue to blame Shula. I want a dangerous offence that puts us in the playoffs every year we have so much talent and it's killing me to see TD, Olsen, Kalil, CJ, and our other vets waste thier last year's not getting that Lombardi. 

 

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Just now, CarolinaSamurai said:

He did? He changed the offense? Man I had no idea watching those games. The high scoring offense was in very close games sometimes big scores from the defense too. Unlike last year those close games went for us but it was the same kind of scheme. 

But let's say he did. Ok then why after losing to the falcons in the same way we lost to the broncos that year we did nothing to address the issue? Where was this change in offence at the end when you SAW a team get to Cam and win. Why didn't Shula give Remmers help, or run plays that stops the crazy blitz they kept doing? We lost the biggest game because of the offense and a large part of that was Shula and there's zero things you can say to change it. Our defense was a powerhouse and played way to much because our offense couldn't stay on the field. And it was a big part attributed to Shula.

We were 6-10 and had plenty of 3 point games were it coulda gone either way. Same as our 15-1 season but they went our way. 

I hope he can evolve and your right but if not he and Ron are gone and I hate it. 

If you can't see the complexity and wrinkles in our run game we likely can't have a discussion because one of us doesn't have a clue. Yeah we had the same run game in 2016 as 2015 and as Shula predicted, the defenses were going to catch up with us. Remember also that complex blocking schemes require what? Lineman who have skill and develop chemistry with each other. One missed assignment results in a busted play or sack.

So the offense started out top 10 until Oher goes down and so does the offense. Add that even by week 5 Cam is shellshocked and talking about not liking the game any more.  Then the injuries and defensive collapses and it was a perfect storm when you add the post Superbowl loser blues.

Do I think that this is a make it break year. I think so. I think Gettleman thinks so as well. I would think JR knows that any year could be now or never for him so I think the whole team is all in. If we pick up guys like Howard or McCaffrey or Fournette then Shula might have what he needs to be good and he better evolve things to improve the passing game using  2 tight ends  and a fast slot receiver. If he doesn't then even I would be on the make a change bandwagon. 

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29 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

It was a problem in 2015 but winning covers up the fact that we nearly blew a bunch of multiple touchdown leads. 

2016- blew 10pt lead in 4th quarter vs Broncos, blew 17pt lead vs Chiefs, blew 8pt lead against the Raiders by punting on 4th and 1 near midfield.

But those losses were due to defensive collapses.  If you trust the defense you can keep being aggressive knowing everything is being covered. With an injured and ineffective secondary early and without Luke for the last third of the season, it is hard to blame Ron for playing it safe and trying to avoid major mistakes. After the first Atlanta game the secondary was targeted every game. We were only decent against the run because everyone passed at will. I guess it depends how you like to lose, by degrees or big chunks. I think he did everything he knew to do but was in uncharted territory.  I expect this year to be 2005 again just like 2015 was 2003 and 2016 was eerily similar to 2004. Only this time get home field and make the Super Bowl go through Charlotte again.

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Just now, panthers55 said:

But those losses were due to defensive collapses. 

I would say they were due to both defense and offense not responding to opponents' adjustments in the second half.

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9 hours ago, Hammerin'Cameron1 said:

We need to get Cam a weapon as special as he is a QB

there can only be one GOAT

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