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Ahmadinejad's Christmas Message: Jesus Would Oppose Warmongers, Occupiers, Terrorists


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#31 pstall

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 07:23 PM

There is also another phrase to consider since Ineedadinnerjacket brought up Jesus.
"Woe to you when men speak highly of you".

#32 Delhommey

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 07:27 PM

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: People throughout the world understand why we do what we do. What's annoying is our sactimonious BS.

#33 Htar

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 07:27 PM

What if its England or France that become the vacuum they are former power houses...whats wrong with that? they are our allies and friends. Iran will never ever ever become more of a power than either of those countries...yes not even bigger than the french!

Sure the US has done a ton of good, we defeated facism, invented the automobile(take that god, we dont need your horse) helped poor and suffering people all over the world....except we cant help our own poor so that is a fault I think.

We tried to stop communism but we didnt. Dont count us winning the cold war as the end of communism, its called the People Republic of China (who happens to be our best friend) Vietnam and Iraq 2.0 reaffirmed something thats been around for a long ass time....people will change when they themselves want to change....Force only makes them do it out of fear. Fear will make people lash out negatively, like a caged dog.

Who are we to project our values all over the world.... Do you want a democrat projecting their values to your republican children or vice versa. Do you as a Christian want a Muslim to project his faith and values on you....most likely not. Yes we have done good, but if someone doesnt agree with us we have to listen why and what can we do to find a common ground. You cant have everything your way.

And if you view people as your enemy nothing will ever get done because enemy=bad bad=must be stopped by all means=I dont listen till you stop.....wow where have I heard that before....oh yeah Bush 2.0


You are vastly understating the good the US has done in this world...Ask Japan and Europe (both rebuilt by us) how badly that experiment has been? Ask the South Koreans the same question.

As for Iran, they are strong enough to project power on to their neighbors, and that would not be a good thing.

It's not a matter of stepping aside and letting someone we agree with or like carry the load...It's way bigger than that. And if you think China and Russia, especially Russia, wouldn't like to project more influence and power in the world than you are just naive.

And believe it or not, some people see diplomacy and good will as weakness and appeasement.

#34 Delhommey

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 07:48 PM

America's done a lotta good and a lotta bad. It has done both to advance its own cause and nothing more.

America does things to advance America, nothing more.

#35 cookinwithgas

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 08:38 PM

That's the thing, and we can argue that our actions are done for the common good until the cows come home, but in point of fact we do what we do for our benefit in the vast majority of cases.

Think of it this way: Iran sends money to Palestinian refugees. Let's say 60 percent of that money actually feeds people. The other 40 percent is somehow funneled to military operations. Can they say they are going good or not?

From our perspective: hey, we invaded Iraq, thousands upon thousands died, more displaced...but they have self government now; wasn't that worth it? Well...of course not! We invaded because we wanted to protect the oil system, from some goofy idea of creating a base of democracy in a region not well equipped to deal with that form of government, to show the Islamic world we were serious, among others....all thought to benefit us. The fact that we were only about halfway to meeting those goals made us talk more about "freeing Iraqis" when in reality we could care less - if we actually cared about people and helping them, our forces would be in Somalia and such, not Iraq.

So the facts are the facts - we as nations are entirely self serving, whether we are the US or Iran. Those are the facts unfiltered by patriotic glasses. I am all for us leading the world, as there are no other nations with the power to do so effectively, but leading is different from dictating.

#36 pstall

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 09:11 PM

What is Iran etc doing in Somalia?
I agree. America is about American "interests". But lets look in the mirror individually.
Are we not about our OWN intrests as well at the end of the day?
We say the govt should redistribute wealth, provide more health care, education and such but what do we do as an individual?

I totally agree on the sanctimonious part. Very true.
But we have been in a Catch 22 for 50 years now. Get involved and we are cursed in the international arena.
Don't get involved and the same happens.

Here is the deep dark secret though. Iraq is NOT about oil.
Its two fold. One is plausible sounding the other is not.
One is to make the ME more like the rest of the world. Easier to intergrate for assimilation.
The other is going to sound rather kooky but consider the powers that be the last few years and in general.
They want Iraq(Babylon) to make a come back. Most don't really need to do alot of homework to figure that out.

#37 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 10:07 PM

How many nations has Iran invaded? Is Iran's "warmongering" that much different from Israels? Yes, they do support what we call "terrorists' but the US has done the same over the years when the ends justified it. As far as bullies go, have not seen Iraq bully any other nations.

Iran has enough wrong with it to have to make up crap about it. From what I have seen, I will agree with the idea that this clown knows more about Christianity than the average American "Christian".



Hogwash.


He knows very little about Christianity, but he espouses what those on the left think Christianity should be, all about giving and charity. Those things are fine and even important, but they certainly do not constitute every aspect of christianity. Those that think so are just as guilty of ignoring large parts of the bible as the other side is.

What makes your view of what you think christianity should be any more accurate that what someone at the local church thinks, or some minister who has spent his life studying the bible?

Irt Iran, they don't do direct invasions because their military is not very capable. Instead, they fight proxy wars both in Iraq (to a limited extent) and thru Hezbollah/Syria. Prior to the rise of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Israel was no threat to Iran. But since Iran has started threatening Israel (as a way of distracting its own citizens from major internal issues), and providing material and financial to support to Israels enemies (Hezbollah), they have placed themselves directly in Israel's crosshairs, and may end up paying the price for that mistake.

#38 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 10:15 PM

What if its England or France that become the vacuum they are former power houses...whats wrong with that? they are our allies and friends. Iran will never ever ever become more of a power than either of those countries...yes not even bigger than the french!

Sure the US has done a ton of good, we defeated facism, invented the automobile(take that god, we dont need your horse) helped poor and suffering people all over the world....except we cant help our own poor so that is a fault I think.

We tried to stop communism but we didnt. Dont count us winning the cold war as the end of communism, its called the People Republic of China (who happens to be our best friend) Vietnam and Iraq 2.0 reaffirmed something thats been around for a long ass time....people will change when they themselves want to change....Force only makes them do it out of fear. Fear will make people lash out negatively, like a caged dog.

Who are we to project our values all over the world.... Do you want a democrat projecting their values to your republican children or vice versa. Do you as a Christian want a Muslim to project his faith and values on you....most likely not. Yes we have done good, but if someone doesnt agree with us we have to listen why and what can we do to find a common ground. You cant have everything your way.

And if you view people as your enemy nothing will ever get done because enemy=bad bad=must be stopped by all means=I dont listen till you stop.....wow where have I heard that before....oh yeah Bush 2.0


Can't help our poor? Really? If thats the case, then what do we issue food stamps for, or what is section 8 for, or earned income credit or all those other programs for the poor?

I have traveled throughout the world, including some 35 countries and 23 states in the US and as far as I can tell, the difference between being poor in the US and some third world nation is this. The poorest in America don't have cable, or the nicest pair of sneakers. They don't eat the healthiest foods, and they probably will not be able to go to college. They might even have drunk, or drug addicted and abusive parents (I have seen that in person). Some situations are pretty bad. But in a third world country like the Philippines (where my wife is from) being poor means you don't get to eat. They don't have food stamps, or free school lunches or any of those other programs our government provides.

#39 cookinwithgas

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 10:36 PM

Hogwash.


He knows very little about Christianity, but he espouses what those on the left think Christianity should be, all about giving and charity. Those things are fine and even important, but they certainly do not constitute every aspect of christianity. Those that think so are just as guilty of ignoring large parts of the bible as the other side is.

What makes your view of what you think christianity should be any more accurate that what someone at the local church thinks, or some minister who has spent his life studying the bible?

But since Iran has started threatening Israel (as a way of distracting its own citizens from major internal issues), and providing material and financial to support to Israels enemies (Hezbollah), they have placed themselves directly in Israel's crosshairs, and may end up paying the price for that mistake.


He could know a lot about Christianity, I have no idea. Lots of Western leader have read and studied the Koran, no doubt. Certainly Christ does not say much about smiting enemies or forced conversion, yet the Crusades happened - did the Christians back in Europe have the enlightened view back then as well?

As far as Israel and crosshairs.....great. Let them handle it. Without us. They have been a country for what, 60 years? Thats getting close to the amount of time it took us to have a civil war and we managed with minimal outside support...

#40 pstall

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 11:06 AM

On the Crusades. As much as a poisioning of the well via Catholics trying to sabotage for power.
Similar to King Henry breaking off and making his own rules.

IF you understand Christianity or the Bible, you will see very little justification for the crusades and other endeavors.
I think for many folks its their little out clause to never become a Christian. You see because of the crusades and all these wars the last several years is why I don't go to church etc. Been a ton of wars NOT in the name of "a" God as well.

But yet that same person continues to go to work with a company that is built on greed and may not do very much for the poor etc.

Heres the thing. You can't give this guy much credit on any level.
He has talked a lot. But what has he ACCOMPLISHED? Seriously. What has he moved forward to the benefit of others outside his own border?

#41 bredy087

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 11:19 AM

He has a Napolean complex. Elected on the basis of helping his countries poor and needy, then all he does is rattle his saber.

#42 Matt Foley

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 11:32 AM

That's the thing, and we can argue that our actions are done for the common good until the cows come home, but in point of fact we do what we do for our benefit in the vast majority of cases.

Think of it this way: Iran sends money to Palestinian refugees. Let's say 60 percent of that money actually feeds people. The other 40 percent is somehow funneled to military operations. Can they say they are going good or not?

From our perspective: hey, we invaded Iraq, thousands upon thousands died, more displaced...but they have self government now; wasn't that worth it? Well...of course not! We invaded because we wanted to protect the oil system, from some goofy idea of creating a base of democracy in a region not well equipped to deal with that form of government, to show the Islamic world we were serious, among others....all thought to benefit us. The fact that we were only about halfway to meeting those goals made us talk more about "freeing Iraqis" when in reality we could care less - if we actually cared about people and helping them, our forces would be in Somalia and such, not Iraq.

So the facts are the facts - we as nations are entirely self serving, whether we are the US or Iran. Those are the facts unfiltered by patriotic glasses. I am all for us leading the world, as there are no other nations with the power to do so effectively, but leading is different from dictating.


Whenever there is a tragedy in the world (i.e. tsunami), who steps up to the plate almost every time?

#43 bredy087

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 11:43 AM

who stepped up to the plate in New Orleans, oh wait Mexico offered to send troops to help but we denied them entry. Then procceded to do absolutely nothing for days and days and days.

Back to my point posted earlier, we can't help our own people. Help yourself first before helping others....isnt that the American way?

So the facts are the facts - we as nations are entirely self serving, whether we are the US or Iran.

He has it right

#44 pstall

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 01:03 PM

Nobody comes close to aid/relief/funding etc than the US.
And yes, even in our backyard we drop the ball. But can we quantify "not helping" our own?
1 person is one too many to go without, but no country is even close.

But just curious. What if Bush had said what the Iranian guy had said. Would some of you kinda leaning toward Iran guy do the same with Bush?
So it's either truth is truth or if the source is someone I agree with THEN its the truth.

#45 Matt Foley

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 01:47 PM

Nobody comes close to aid/relief/funding etc than the US.
And yes, even in our backyard we drop the ball. But can we quantify "not helping" our own?
1 person is one too many to go without, but no country is even close.

But just curious. What if Bush had said what the Iranian guy had said. Would some of you kinda leaning toward Iran guy do the same with Bush?
So it's either truth is truth or if the source is someone I agree with THEN its the truth.


/end thread


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