Jump to content





Photo
- - - - -

Worried about morale this season....


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
101 replies to this topic

#91 carolinanimal

carolinanimal

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 08-January 09
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 900
  • Reputation: 45
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:45 AM

We won't need big-time leadership on offense, so you don't need to worry about Smitty not stepping up there. Fiametta may not be as good as Hoover, but with a healthy Smitty and Williams, along with getting Gross and Otah back, Moore should be able to move the ball. He's going to have a great line and *probably* more targets than Jake did last year. I'm saying that based on an assumption that the Front Office gets some more WR talent in the offseason.

As a reminder, with a patchwork OL, no Williams, and with Smitty spending some time out injured, Moore completed 62% of his passes and posted a rating in the 90s. That was against some decent defenses as well.

But on Defense there's every reason to be concerned. I don't mind cutting Diggs or Kemo, I'm skeptical that they would have kept their starting jobs anyway. It sucks that we lost Peppers, we can't replace him. I think Lewis would have been a good influence to have. I liked Brayton too. But they're gone, so we have to look at what's left.

At DE we have two starters who should be able to contribute. They won't be feared, but neither should be easily exploited. Neither showed up as inadequate at any point in the season last year, and both get a decent press. At DT I have high hopes for Leonard (I think we disagree there), and the wild card is at the UT position. Fortunately, it's a LOT easier to find quality help at that position. I don't know what the answer is, but I have enough faith in our DL coach to believe that we'll get SOMETHING of a pass rush.

The Defensive Line is the weak link for sure. Linebackers get Davis back, and with him and Beason we could line up Jase on the strong side and still have one of the better units in the league. The Secondary is solid and deep for the first time in the Fox era. It's the line that's an issue, only the line. I wouldn't expect it to be a strength, but I don't think that we'll lay down and let teams move the ball at will against us either.

And really, even with Peppers and Lewis, has the line been considered a strength since Jenkins left?

Turnover like this isn't unprecedented in the NFL, turnover like this isn't common, but it's not unusual. And the results are not always bad, nor are they always good. You can go read your stories, I'll read mine (check out the Rams defensive changes in 2000--they cut NINE defensive starters and went from the 23rd ranked defense to the 3rd best--that's not a typo).

We've got a lot of turnover, and it's quite obvious that some of them were salary decisions (Peppers, Kemo). Some were not (Delhomme, Hoover). Some, you just don't know why yet. But there's no way that the team is being set up to lose. And there's no way that the team morale in August will suffer as a result of what happens in February. If it does, then the people who let it get to them will be in next years' rounds of cuts while those who outplayed them enjoy their starting positions. And give Fox some credit. He's not a bad coach all of the sudden, is he?

Really, the whole premise of this thread is worthy of ESPN.


only problem is meeks line cant afford to be average, like chris harris says(you know that guy that actually plays for the panthers) it is all about the dline in meeks defense. doesnt matter how good your linebackers and secondary are if you have a subpar dline. in this scheme there are not a lot of blitzes. meeks scheme cant afford a supbar dline.

#92 carolinanimal

carolinanimal

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 08-January 09
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 900
  • Reputation: 45
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:46 AM

We are not a better team. But we have more potential at most positions, and the offseason is not over yet.

Do you think that the offense will be worse?


no. i actually am not worried about the offense at all. there will be a learning curve with moore, but i think he will be fine. he has showed us more than the players on the dline have shown, which is my main problem. i still hope we get him a speedier option at the #2 wr position other than dj:(

#93 Cyberjag

Cyberjag

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 3,866
  • Reputation: 664
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:55 AM

only problem is meeks line cant afford to be average, like chris harris says(you know that guy that actually plays for the panthers) it is all about the dline in meeks defense. doesnt matter how good your linebackers and secondary are if you have a subpar dline. in this scheme there are not a lot of blitzes. meeks scheme cant afford a supbar dline.


Quick-name a starting DT for Indianapolis that other teams feared while Meeks was there! :)

And are you saying that our line has been above average for the past few years? Based on what?

#94 turnmyleftheadphoneup

turnmyleftheadphoneup

    Banned

  • Joined: 08-January 10
  • PipPip
  • posts: 90
  • Reputation: 0
Banned

Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:55 AM

yeah, our offense will be fine. it's the defense that everyone is so worried about. and i don't blame 'em. but i still think we'll be ok. the way our defensive tackles work, they rotate in and out. so to have two players with half the talent as say... an albert haynesworth, would equal an albert haynesworth, except in two big freakin bodies up front. the williams brothers up in minnesota didn't start in minnesota... so maybe we get lucky and find two underrated guys like them and get back to stopping the run like john fox's teams are known for.

#95 carolinanimal

carolinanimal

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 08-January 09
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 900
  • Reputation: 45
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:57 AM

Quick-name a starting DT for Indianapolis that other teams feared while Meeks was there! :)

And are you saying that our line has been above average for the past few years? Based on what?


none. but the ends were greatly feared. quick name a de on the panthers that is greatly feared.

#96 Cyberjag

Cyberjag

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 3,866
  • Reputation: 664
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 10:01 AM

none. but the ends were greatly feared. quick name a de on the panthers that is greatly feared.

Brayton was feared? I like the guy, but come on! :)

Peppers was it, and if we still had Peppers a lot of people would be saying that we were poised to get better. So we lose Peppers, does that lose the season for us?

#97 turnmyleftheadphoneup

turnmyleftheadphoneup

    Banned

  • Joined: 08-January 10
  • PipPip
  • posts: 90
  • Reputation: 0
Banned

Posted 12 March 2010 - 10:03 AM

Brayton was feared? I like the guy, but come on! :)

Peppers was it, and if we still had Peppers a lot of people would be saying that we were poised to get better. So we lose Peppers, does that lose the season for us?


no, but it'll be an obstacle that we'll have to face once training camp starts. i still think e. brown is gonna be a beast in ron meeks' system. and if we draft another defensive end in the draft, i think we'll be set.

#98 Sloth

Sloth

    idk

  • Joined: 06-January 09
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 2,759
  • Reputation: 858
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 11:07 AM

i think it all comes down to this. i doesnt matter how much "heart" you have or how "hungry" you are or you just need to "step up" whatever buzz words that you can come up with. it is all about talent. that combined with experience that makes a good player. this is what seperates the average guys from the great players. it is not so easy just to say "step up" to some players. they may or may not have the talent level to take it to the next level or experience for that matter. that is gained OVER TIME. that is why vets are important there experience tempered with youths talent makes for a dangerous combination in any group.
also just because we say someone has to step up doesnt mean they will.
also these young guys havent "earned" anything. they were basically handed the job. they didnt have to beat out a vet to get it. they are just coming of injured reserve(which is another issue in itself) to a starting spot.
People are looking at the loss of the vets in the wrong way. i keep seeing everyone break it down individually. But we need to look at there loss as a whole. individually they may not have been probowlers, but what team has that many probowlers anyway?. but collectively their experience combined with their skills, help us out tremendously last year. People act like we drafted tank tyler and leonard and they grew up in our system. they havent. not saying they wont get better or arent any good. but to expect a line made up of inexperience players with barely a years starting experience between them to be dominant is crazy. i know young guys need a shot but most teams dont give there guys a shot like this. what teams do you know of that have dump one whole unit and given it to rookies or guys with less than a years experience all together? not many i gaurantee you that.


omg he didnt say superbowl GET HIM

#99 MadHatter

MadHatter

    The Only Voice of Reason

  • Joined: 30-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 20,213
  • Reputation: 5,732
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 12:48 PM

we are not a "doom" crew. but can you honestly say with all the experience we lost we are a better team right now? all the experts even our own beat writers recognize this. you guys act like all of a sudden we got a probowl roster on our hands. we just refuse to drink the koolaid and are not on the "YEAH!!! WE CUT DELHOMME! EVERYTHING IS FINE" high. we are not saying that we will be 1-15 agian, but to act like we are a team that is set to be a playoff threat is crazy.


I think we are a comparable team now.

DT....I don't think we are any worse off with Leonard, Tyler, and Irvin than with kemo and Lewis.

LB...we are better off with Anderson/Conner starting than Diggs

QB....don't even need to comment on this one.

DE...losing Peppers does hurt this team. I like Johnson alot and Brown has shown an ability to get pressure. That being said, we still need a vet DE (like Brayton) to put into the rotation and mix.

WR...if we see the old Jarrett, then we are worse. However, moose is not getting any younger. I will defer until later to evaluate this position.

Listen people...we are not done with the roster. There will be a few FA's, and there will be new rookies.

I am deferring total judgement until later in the FA when we see the final roster going into TC.

#100 carolinanimal

carolinanimal

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 08-January 09
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 900
  • Reputation: 45
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:18 PM

omg he didnt say superbowl GET HIM


:D:):o:confused::(:leaving:

#101 Matt Foley

Matt Foley

    Member

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 15,983
  • Reputation: 1
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 04:06 PM

Mad Hatter, did you actually say the Panthers aren't worse off at DE without Peppers?

#102 GRWatcher

GRWatcher

    visiting from Kepler-186f

  • Joined: 26-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 2,392
  • Reputation: 638
HUDDLER

Posted 12 March 2010 - 10:21 PM

What a turn around! I'm paraphrasing, but ........... "Players have to step up." "It's up to the players to keep the morale up." "They're grown men." There have even been references that John Fox is a good coach and can develop this young talent quickly and that the FO can more than adequately fill the holes.

After a year of whining and harassing about how bad Fox is and how dumb Hurney is, posters now know they will deliver a winning (let alone playoff) season with all this young inexperienced talent. And last year, nothing was the players' fault (except Peppers sometimes and Delhomme always), nothing.

As carolinanimal says,

we are not a "doom" crew. but can you honestly say with all the experience we lost we are a better team right now? all the experts even our own beat writers recognize this. you guys act like all of a sudden we got a probowl roster on our hands. we just refuse to drink the koolaid and are not on the "YEAH!!! WE CUT DELHOMME! EVERYTHING IS FINE" high. we are not saying that we will be 1-15 agian, but to act like we are a team that is set to be a playoff threat is crazy.

Thank you!

It's the defense that I'm worried about. I won't rehash everything carolinanimal or panthers55 (and others, I'm sure) have said in this thread but I basicaly agree with them. Which also leads me to worry about ST's too.

Not considering Peppers or Delhomme (something had to be done about each), if we hadn't cut starters (average vets, my ass) according to a formula that first looked at their age, I would feel better. Our star player and the kickers are the only 30+ players left and I'm not sure both kickers will stay either.

I said it before, I'll feel better when there's a significant multi-year signing and we start extending our own players.