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Barry Bonds


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#31 King Taharqa

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 02:34 AM

Face it. Bonds is hated for being an a--hole. Not for being black. He's under indictment because he lied about using steroids. Not because he's black. And frankly, there's only one person I can see here that's indulging in race based generalizations, otherwise known as "racism". That person's words are included in this post.


I didnt say Bonds is hated because he's black. I said Bonds is hated because he's a superstar black athlete who isnt seen as being humble enough. There is a difference. Those black athletes who are seen as being humble (having a "just happy to be there" attitude;) and are perceived with a docile demeanor (for example, your example of Hank Aaron) arent. I also said that the vast majority of Bonds haters/asterisk holders are working class whites. Thats a statement that the very news channel that supplies you with the majority of your Bonds hate supports in the poll Ive already posted in this thread. Hey everyone on this board knows I loathe Kobe Bryant (another superster black athlete) and openly root against the guy and think "he's an asshole". But ask me do I want to see him go to jail or if I want to erase his accomplishments from the record books because of that fact? Thats the difference between me and you.

#32 Mr. Scot

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 03:00 AM

I didnt say Bonds is hated because he's black. I said Bonds is hated because he's a superstar black athlete who isnt seen as being humble enough. There is a difference. Those black athletes who are seen as being humble (having a "just happy to be there" attitude;) and are perceived with a docile demeanor (for example, your example of Hank Aaron) arent. I also said that the vast majority of Bonds haters/asterisk holders are working class whites. Thats a statement that the very news channel that supplies you with the majority of your Bonds hate supports in the poll Ive already posted in this thread. Hey everyone on this board knows I loathe Kobe Bryant (another superster black athlete) and openly root against the guy and think "he's an asshole". But ask me do I want to see him go to jail or if I want to erase his accomplishments from the record books because of that fact? Thats the difference between me and you.

Bryant's a bad example. I think he does deserve to go to jail, and for something waaaay worse than just taking steroids.

Regardless, "Good guy" athlete vs "A--hole" athlete is most definitely not something that breaks along racial lines.

Plenty of people think guys like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Tony Romo and Jay Cutler are dickheads. Ditto Jose Canseco and Roger Clemens. On the flipside, people here have loads of respect for guys like Warrick Dunn, even though he's played for not just one, but two, division rivals.

Your argument really breaks down, at least on this board, with the mention of a couple of names:

Steve Smith

Smitty's never going to win a "Mr. Humility" contest, and his track record isn't exactly perfect. Regardless, you'd have a tough time finding another guy that got as loyal a following among Panther fans as Smith does.

Julius Peppers

Quiet, humble, unassuming, and yet the majority of the fanbase is prepared to pack his bags for him and run him out of town just as quickly as they did another humble guy, DeShaun Foster.

Jake Delhomme

See above, with the only difference being skin color.

I could point out some other examples of hated white pricks in sports (Drew Rosenhaus for example) and mention that any episode of Sportscenter features its fair share of self-aggrandizing black players (Shaquille O'Neal being the biggest example, literally) who have loads of loyal fan following.

But in the end, the bottom line is this:

A loudmouth is a loudmouth, regardless of how much pigment the lips around that mouth happen to carry.

And the heart of nice guy pumps blood that's red, regardless of what color skin surrounds it.

Edited by Mr Scot, 08 February 2009 - 03:04 AM.


#33 King Taharqa

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 03:33 AM

Regardless, "Good guy" athlete vs "A--hole" athlete is most definitely not something that breaks along racial lines.


Its all subjective and thats why I dont get caught up in athletes public personas because I dont know them personally. Its not a popularity contest with me, its about who performs on the field of play. I stand behind my comment that if you are a superstar black athlete that is seen as non-conformist or playing with an "athletic arrogance" you will not be given the benefit of the doubt in anything, be it your leadership, your innocence regarding legal issues, or how well you get along with your peers. Bonds is just the latest example of that fact.

#34 Johnny Rockets

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 10:10 AM

I said Bonds is hated because he's a superstar black athlete who isnt seen as being humble enough.


I would venture to say that the vast majority of people that dislike Bonds, dislike Clemens just as much.

#35 bubbadawg

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 10:25 AM

I don't know KT. Bob Gibson is as arrogant a player as there ever was and while maybe he isn't loved an adored he was never seen as a cancer to the game.

#36 King Taharqa

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 10:44 AM

I would venture to say that the vast majority of people that dislike Bonds, dislike Clemens just as much.


The heat didnt get on Clemens until AFTER his playing days were over. And unlike Bonds, he was given the "benefit of the doubt" (and to some critics of Bonds is STILL given the "benefit of the doubt") that the things he was doing (winning Cy Youngs, maintaining velocity with his pitches) well past the age of 40 were natural. Clemens never seen no parts of people holding asterisks at all his games and sending his family death threats. He never dealt with none of that.

"What I'm saying is that there's nothing in his career numbers that would indicate any kind of artificial enhancement. I think a lot of people who assume that his later career performance was artificially enhanced haven't done their homework."-Bob Costas, huge baseball purist and Bonds hater speaking on Clemens alleged PED usage well after his testimony in Congress.

#37 Johnny Rockets

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 06:41 PM

Clemens didn't willingly end his career, he was forced out just like Bonds KT. Both of them tried to fight to clear their name and it backfired because neither one is 100% innocent. Most sports fans are rather forgiving....as long as you accept responsibility and say you are sorry......no matter what color you are.

#38 bubbadawg

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:22 PM

exactly, Pettite and Giambi have been ,if not accepted back by the fans, at least not vilified. Clemens., Palmiero, Bonds and to a lesser extent McGwire, Have drawn a good portion of the fans hatred for continuing to lie when the evidence is overwhelming. If Rose had been man enough to stand up and tell the truth when he was first investigated he might have a chance at getting in the HOF before he dies.

And for the record, I hope Rose is never let in, or at least not before Shoeless Joe

#39 Scrumtrilescent

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:46 AM

Barry Bonds made baseball a joke! I really wish I could respect his record but I can't!

I mean we are talking about a sport that still uses a wooden bat to keep the records true and then you have this mess.

I really wish baseball could get back to the status it once was because it is a great sport and America's legacy of sports!!!!

and KT I am not picking a fight with you because I believe you take this to heart about Barry, but that is just how I feel, no disrespect!

If modern day pro players used metal/ceramic bats, there'd be a huge list of dead pitchers, 3rd basemen, and 1st basemen.

#40 hmsmike

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 10:01 AM

If modern day pro players used metal/ceramic bats, there'd be a huge list of dead pitchers, 3rd basemen, and 1st basemen.


Well ratings would go up! :D


Who can turn away from a train wreck? :P

#41 Johnny Rockets

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 12:15 PM

If modern day pro players used metal/ceramic bats, there'd be a huge list of dead pitchers, 3rd basemen, and 1st basemen.


And I can only dream that Chipper would be the first casualty......

#42 chbright

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 11:59 AM

And I can only dream that Chipper would be the first casualty......


could ryan howard get out of the way of anything. if they hit threw ham sandwiches his way he might be fine. heck kruk would still be playing then lol.

#43 Johnny Rockets

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 12:43 PM

could ryan howard get out of the way of anything. if they hit threw ham sandwiches his way he might be fine. heck kruk would still be playing then lol.


Unfortunately Ryan Howards bat gets out of the way of many a breaking ball. :(

#44 bubbadawg

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 02:13 PM

metal bats are just awful. The crack of wood against the baseball is music made in the heavens and recreated on earth


Pitchers and catchers report in 1 day 19 hrs 44 minutes.

And there will be joy across the land for baseball is returning

Edited by bubbadawg, 10 February 2009 - 02:17 PM.


#45 dimbee

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 03:39 PM

The second the Feds go after him, you let me know and Ill carry the flag for him too. Dont hold your breath though, thats usually reserved for black superstar athletes. I think A-Rod'll be good in that regard.


How about Miguel Tejada?

http://sportsillustr...d.ap/index.html


Hey, Hispanics are the new minority, you know...


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