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Of course Tea Party people aren't racist! Part 47


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#46 ChucktownK

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:50 AM

:lurk5:

#47 cantrell

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:52 AM

So Cantrell, exactly what disadvantage do blacks have in the school system? Are you trying to say that blacks are st00pid like us in the military? Are you trying to say that blacks can't succeed on their own? What's the point of repeating the same stats over and over? It sounds pretty racist to me if you think blacks aren't as mentally capable as whites.


If that's what you got from what I said then it looks like you're only confirming the stereotype that those in the military aren't exactly Rhodes Scholars.

My argument is exactly the opposite of what you said. My argument is that the education system, in conjunction with socioeconomic status, puts minorities at a distinct disadvantage. This is backed up by research and statistics. Since I'm not writing a term paper on this, I'll link wikipedia. If you have any issues, feel free to point them out.

Studies show that when students have assistance from a parent with homework, they do much better in school.[6] This is a problem for many minority students due to the large number of single-parent households and the increase in non-English speaking parents


As some researchers point out, minority students often feel little motivation to do well in school because they do not believe it will pay off in the form of a better job or upward social mobility.[10][11] By not trying to do well in school, minorities are engaging in a conscious rejection of the achievement ideology. The achievement ideology is the idea that working hard and studying long hours will pay-off for students in the form of higher wages or upward social mobility.


Have you ever though that "the system" is not the problem, but youth culture (regardless of color) in itself? Who wants to be known as the teacher's pet? Who wants his friends to say he is acting "too white"? Who wants to be known as a butt kisser because he did his homework? This attitude is far from limited to blacks.


Then what is your point? That the education system isn't discriminatory and that minorities bring it on themselves because they're either "too st00pid" or they'd rather be "cool"? Yes, this must be the reason why there is such a large achievement gap! Now, why would they have a problem with "acting white"? Could it be because black people have been continually oppressed either directly or institutionally by white people since the time of slavery? No way, we're postracial, right?

Perhaps you should consider that cultural influences such as this would tie in with the income gap, which is included in my argument.

Jencks and Phillips argue that black parents may not encourage early education in toddlers because they do not see the personal benefits of having exceptional academic skills. As a result of cultural differences, black students tend to begin school with smaller vocabularies than their white classmates.[4] However, poverty often acts as a confounding factor and differences that are assumed to arise from racial/cultural factors may be socioeconomically driven. Many children who are poor, regardless of race, come from homes that lack stability, continuity of care, adequate nutrition, and medical care creating a level of environmental stress that can affect the young child’s development. As a result, these children enter school with decreased word knowledge that can affect their language skills, influence their experience with books, and create different perceptions and expectations in the classroom context. [5]


Also:

Different schools have different effects on similar students. Children of color tend to be concentrated in low achieving, highly segregated schools. In general, minority students are more likely to come from low-income households, meaning minority students are more likely to attend poorly funded schools based on the districting patterns within the school system. Schools in lower-income districts tend to employ less-qualified teachers and have fewer educational resources.[12] Research shows that teacher effectiveness is the most important in-school factor affecting student learning. Good teachers can actually close or eliminate the gaps in achievement on the standardized tests that separate white and minority students. [13]


Schools also tend to place students in tracking groups as a means of tailoring lesson plans for different types of learners. However, as a result of schools placing emphasis on socioeconomic status and cultural capital, minority students are vastly over-represented in lower educational tracks.[14]


There is also some research that suggests students in lower tracks suffer from social psychological consequences of being labeled as a slower learner, which often leads children to stop trying in school.[2] In fact, many sociologists argue that tracking in schools does not provide any lasting benefits to any group of students.[18]


If necessary, I'll link academic journals. I'm hoping that this well-cited wikipedia entry will suffice.

http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

#48 googoodan

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:13 AM

Backtrackin' like a mofo...


Sorry, you're the one saying that blacks are distinctly at a disadvantage. Then you try to post some excerpts that... [each number corresponds to the quote block from your post]

1) Reinforce racial stereotypes (you'd be quick to yell BIGOT if it were me doing the same thing)
2) Say what I say - (it isn't cool to do well in school)
3) Some people are st00pid because they don't know big words and don't have insurance
4) Good teachers can "close the gap" but notice it doesn't say increase the scores of black students.
5) Gives more proof that the consensus is that blacks are st00pid.
6) Says slow learners are lazy because they're slow learners. (huh)


Wow. Mind numbing. And it reinforces what I said - you (and apparently many others) believe blacks are so st00pid that excuses have to be made for them.

Why do you feel that way?

I see it as a problem with youth culture than any sort of black inferiority. I'll never be able to convince you racists of that.

Edited by googoodan, 27 October 2010 - 02:15 AM.


#49 cantrell

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:34 AM

First, how exactly did I backtrack? I said from the beginning that socioeconomic status is significant. Just because you say I backtracked, doesn't mean I really did.

1) Reinforce racial stereotypes (you'd be quick to yell BIGOT if it were me doing the same thing)


Uh, no I wouldn't? Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. The problem with the conservative thought process is that they take their flaws, magnify them, and project them on those they disagree with. What that politician said was racist. Saying that students from single-parent homes and foreign-language speaking homes struggle isn't quite the same. The school system is more favorable to English speaking children who do not come from a single parent home. White students are more likely to fit both demographics. We don't have a national language and, until we do, it's not their responsibility to learn English.

2) Say what I say - (it isn't cool to do well in school)


And why isn't it? A history of oppression and an acceptance that they have little upward social mobility. Blacks deal with poor upward mobility. None of this is new.

3) Some people are st00pid because they don't know big words and don't have insurance


That's what you got from that? Really? You just happened to gloss over the part that directly related children of low-income families with poor performance in school? Holy fug.

4) Good teachers can "close the gap" but notice it doesn't say increase the scores of black students.


Oh, so they mean good teachers would "close the gap" by decreasing the scores of white students? lol

5) Gives more proof that the consensus is that blacks are st00pid.


Surprise! "googoodan" overlooks the connection to socioeconomic status again!

6) Says slow learners are lazy because they're slow learners. (huh)


So you're not much of a sociology or psychology guy, eh?

Wow. Mind numbing. And it reinforces what I said - you (and apparently many others) believe blacks are so st00pid that excuses have to be made for them.

Why do you feel that way?


Would you please quote where that was said? Everything I posted relates low socioeconomic status and the institutionally racist education system as the leading factors for the achievement gap. If you're arguing against the idea that low socioeconomic status and a broken education system are responsible for the achievement gap, you are arguing for the idea that blacks are genetically predispositioned to lower IQs. Or perhaps they choose not to learn because they don't want to "act white," but that has nothing to do with their perception of white privilege and the tension that results!

#50 googoodan

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:41 AM

First, how exactly did I backtrack? I said from the beginning that socioeconomic status is significant. Just because you say I backtracked, doesn't mean I really did.



Uh, no I wouldn't? Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. The problem with the conservative thought process is that they take their flaws, magnify them, and project them on those they disagree with. What that politician said was racist. Saying that students from single-parent homes and foreign-language speaking homes struggle isn't quite the same. The school system is more favorable to English speaking children who do not come from a single parent home. White students are more likely to fit both demographics. We don't have a national language and, until we do, it's not their responsibility to learn English.



And why isn't it? A history of oppression and an acceptance that they have little upward social mobility. Blacks deal with poor upward mobility. None of this is new.



That's what you got from that? Really? You just happened to gloss over the part that directly related children of low-income families with poor performance in school? Holy fug.



Oh, so they mean good teachers would "close the gap" by decreasing the scores of white students? lol



Surprise! "googoodan" overlooks the connection to socioeconomic status again!



So you're not much of a sociology or psychology guy, eh?



Would you please quote where that was said? Everything I posted relates low socioeconomic status and the institutionally racist education system as the leading factors for the achievement gap. If you're arguing against the idea that low socioeconomic status and a broken education system are responsible for the achievement gap, you are arguing for the idea that blacks are genetically predispositioned to lower IQs. Or perhaps they choose not to learn because they don't want to "act white," but that has nothing to do with their perception of white privilege and the tension that results!


Just because you say it, doesn't make it true.

/cantrell logic.

#51 cantrell

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:41 AM

Man, this one was easy.

#52 Matt Foley

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:21 AM

Cantrell I thought you hated slavery? Cause you just got owned.

#53 cantrell

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:29 AM

Cantrell I thought you hated slavery? Cause you just got owned.


Hey, it's everyone's favorite cheerleader!

Come back when you can form an argument that isn't vague generalities and "gut feelings" please.

#54 g5jamz

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:34 AM

Now who's racist...

someone that can tell by the melonin level in your skin and determine that you are immediately disadvantaged and require their help....

or someone that doesn't assume these things and treats you like an person with equal opportunities.

#55 cantrell

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:24 AM

Now who's racist...

someone that can tell by the melonin level in your skin and determine that you are immediately disadvantaged and require their help....

or someone that doesn't assume these things and treats you like an person with equal opportunities.


Can you provide statistics that show that the average black person has "equal opportunities"? Can you refute the achievement gap? The income gap? No? OK then.

#56 pstall

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:14 AM

I really think you're missing the bigger picture here. The achievement gap.

Posted Image

The income gap.



http://www.bizjourna...27/daily11.html

But please, keep sharing your anecdotal evidence.



Totally agree. Those metro's have also been dominated by Dem controlled Gov or Mayors. But the Tea Party is the boogeyman?

There is much work to be done to close those gaps. I volunteer to make sure those gaps are closed but I'm the narrowmided guy.

#57 Zod

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:24 AM

Some of the tea bag movement has its roots in racism. Of course, its nothing they would ever admit to. I don't believe the Libertarian party has much racism at all. Those people dumb enough to be racist won't understand the Libertarian principles. But the tea party? Yes, majority are morons who think Glen Beck is not an entertainer but someone who should be taken seriously.

#58 Matt Foley

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:49 AM

Hey, it's everyone's favorite cheerleader!

Come back when you can form an argument that isn't vague generalities and "gut feelings" please.


I can't reply to this. You are someone else's property and I must take it up with them.

#59 g5jamz

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:55 AM

Can you provide statistics that show that the average black person has "equal opportunities"? Can you refute the achievement gap? The income gap? No? OK then.


I'm not prejudging or stereotyping ...you are.

The statistics may show a predisposition to one way our another, but you're applying a broad brush.

#60 pstall

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 09:01 AM

until i hear from each member of the tea party, i will reserve judement its a racist group. like any group, we seem to have to preface this fact every day in der huddle, there are jackasses and morons.
Take a guess which folks in those groups the media latches on to?


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