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Of course Tea Party people aren't racist! Part 47


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#61 Carolina Husker

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 09:16 AM

I don't think the Tea Party is racist. But I do think it's lame as shit.

#62 SCP

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:48 AM

Can you provide statistics that show that the average black person has "equal opportunities"? Can you refute the achievement gap? The income gap? No? OK then.


You are the one that stereotyped an entire race, just like Al Reynolds did.

I assume you agree with the bolded part of this Al Reynolds statement? Right?

"We need to provide ways that are more incentive, other than just sports avenues, for the men for the minorities to want to go to college and get an education and better themselves before the women have to support them all."


So if he would have phrased his comments in a more sensitive fashion, you would be in lockstep with this Tea Party guy. LOL, maybe you shouldn't vote a straight party ticket. Here is a guy that is looking to make the lines in your little charts and graphs intersect. Sounds to me like he wants to help, but he made a stupid comment that all the libs and progressives ran with.

Cantrell, you are just an elitist asshole who thinks he knows everything and knows what's best for the next guy even though you are 3,000 miles away from his problems. Pelsoi and Ried would be proud.

Edited by SouthCakPanther, 27 October 2010 - 11:59 AM.


#63 MadHatter

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:08 PM

I really think you're missing the bigger picture here. The achievement gap.

Posted Image

The income gap.



http://www.bizjourna...27/daily11.html

But please, keep sharing your anecdotal evidence.


And of course it is everyone else's fault for their results. It has nothing to do with the student or their parents.

It is the teachers fault....it is the schools fault....it is a cultural thing....it is all of our fault that they don't fuging study and don't fuging pass.

How about a little accountability.

#64 cookinwithgas

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:11 PM

I don't think the graph identifies fault. It's just a statistical indicator that there are still issues somehow related to race in education, regardless of what the issues are.

#65 MadHatter

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:12 PM

I don't think the graph identifies fault. It's just a statistical indicator that there are still issues somehow related to race in education, regardless of what the issues are.


Agreed.

#66 cookinwithgas

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:13 PM

http://www.huffingto...e_n_774580.html

This is the kind of thinking we are still up against.

#67 MadHatter

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:18 PM

http://www.huffingto...e_n_774580.html

This is the kind of thinking we are still up against.


Although I don't agree with most of what the article said. However, I do believe there is a much higher proportion of depression and suicide among homosexual teens than heterosexual ones. Anything that makes you different when you are a teenager is life altering. A break-up by a girlfriend or boyfriend spirals teens into depression.

#68 Matt Foley

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:25 PM

Although I don't agree with most of what the article said. However, I do believe there is a much higher proportion of depression and suicide among homosexual teens than heterosexual ones. Anything that makes you different when you are a teenager is life altering. A break-up by a girlfriend or boyfriend spirals teens into depression.


My step sister is gay. She's tried to kill herself three times after breakups with girlfriends. I don't know if that is common or not. Seems like the pressure is made worse because there aren't as many "other fish in the sea."

Please, no tuna jokes.

#69 cookinwithgas

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:39 PM

That's not what this guy is saying. He's saying that they want to kill themselves because somehow inside they know that they are "abnormal".

"Abnormal" is an external judgement from society to an individual. You remove the judgement, you remove the issue. Its this guy and people like him that are the cause.

#70 Matt Foley

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:58 PM

That's not what this guy is saying. He's saying that they want to kill themselves because somehow inside they know that they are "abnormal".

"Abnormal" is an external judgement from society to an individual. You remove the judgement, you remove the issue. Its this guy and people like him that are the cause.


That, too.

#71 cantrell

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 09:45 PM

You are the one that stereotyped an entire race, just like Al Reynolds did.

I assume you agree with the bolded part of this Al Reynolds statement? Right?


Hey, "southcakpanther" is wrong again. Surprise! I can't make you understand, and I really can't dumb it down any further. You don't get it. It's cool. It's not like you're in danger of winning an election and imposing your idiotic beliefs that are backed with no statistical evidence.

"We need to provide ways that are more incentive, other than just sports avenues, for the men for the minorities to want to go to college and get an education and better themselves before the women have to support them all."


I don't, in any way, agree with this. His argument is that minorities make the choice to sell drugs rather than attain an education. The fact is, socioeconomic status and a broken education system result in fewer minorities advancing to college. It's not rocket science; it's sociology.

So if he would have phrased his comments in a more sensitive fashion, you would be in lockstep with this Tea Party guy. LOL, maybe you shouldn't vote a straight party ticket. Here is a guy that is looking to make the lines in your little charts and graphs intersect. Sounds to me like he wants to help, but he made a stupid comment that all the libs and progressives ran with.


Look at how dumb you are.

Cantrell, you are just an elitist asshole who thinks he knows everything and knows what's best for the next guy even though you are 3,000 miles away from his problems. Pelsoi and Ried would be proud.


Still waiting on statistics which refute the achievement gap and income gap. Maybe something offering definitive proof that minorities don't achieve more and make more because they're "lazy"? I'm really loving this blame-the-victim mentality you've got going on here.

And of course it is everyone else's fault for their results. It has nothing to do with the student or their parents.

It is the teachers fault....it is the schools fault....it is a cultural thing....it is all of our fault that they don't fuging study and don't fuging pass.

How about a little accountability.


So your argument would be that minorities are naturally going to score lower and, thus, make less? Even when socioeconomic status is correlated with achievement? This is the definition of racism, btw.

Also, i cited theory which ties parental influence to the child's education. However, parental influence is directly affected by socioeconomic status. My point still stands.

I honestly can't believe that it's 2010 and I'm having to explain to people that it's statistically a disadvantage in today's societal structure to be black. Facts be damned, we're postracial, right?

Since I'm apparently discussing sociology with people who, aside from googoodan, probably haven't taken a sociology course above intro in their lives, I'm not going to try to convince you guys. You have a predetermined set of beliefs backed by no factual evidence. Statistical evidence is rejected by "southcakpanther" because it goes directly against his predetermined belief. I'll leave you guys with this.

Posted Image

#72 pstall

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:21 PM

cantrell i agree to a point. it does come down to parental involvement and thats one reason my wife and i working on proposals to become liasons for those parents, for whatever reason, aren't as engaged in their childs education as they could/should.
the way i operate is i believe in helping someone to the point where you remove ALL excuses and then that person has to look in the mirror. no more pointing fingers.
my goal is to identify the parents and get down to the heart of why they can't break thru with the teachers. is it work? ok, lets sit down with your employer and work something out. if they are unwilling we will apply pressure in a smart and concentrated way. remove that barrier and move on. now if your boss gives you the ok and you don't make the effort, im going to apply pressure on the parent. week in, week out until they change or tell me to get lost. but before i leave i will let them know that all the tools, resources are their and they now can't blame anyone or anything.

the other elephant in the room with this is teen pregnancy. much like the disadvantages of poverty and other socioecon issues, this also creates a massive hurdle to overcome. sure it can be done, but suddenly this kid, is now raising a kid on their own and thus the legacy of poverty continues.

ironically your boy Juan Williams wrote a book called "Enough". He made some points about this as well as tell many couples to have kids after they are married or at least young adults.
Not even from a moral standpoint about marriage but a practical and common sense approach. two incomes are better than one. makes sense. make enough where one parent can work and the other stays home etc. now the chances of the legacy of poverty continuing can be broken.

being a macro nerd in the financial sector has paid off in many ways for me. not just in making money for other people but in problem solving and helping families. yeah i want to hear on how you got here and i like historical data as much as the next guy but lets fix this. lets look past the obvious and the fear of telling the truth to one person or a group and solve the problem.
the reason im called in at work to unravel epic mysteries and issues is i dont take crap from anybody and i haven't allowed myself to be preconditioned to think or solve something a certain way. that allows me to get thru to any person or race on the job more effectively than anybody else.
I have coached kids from some of the worst neighborhoods ever. i would make them run laps for only three reasons. if they got picked off from 2nd base. if they didnt help a teammate out and if they made excuses or said the word can't. but not on the field but from home to school. i simply would not allow any player to say they can't or its because of my color coach or its where i grew up. each kid grew up to shatter those lame stats and preconcieved notions. many went on to college and some started their own companies. there is nothing greater than to get a phone call or hit up on facebook from these kids who are men now and talk about the old days and them saying thanks.

but i stand by the fact that in many ways, PC, has done just as much to hold kids back than where they live or the color of their skin.
as passionate as some guys in the tinderbox appear to be, i hope they take those passions out to help others get out of the hole they might be in. otherwise, we just need to shut up.

#73 Matt Foley

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:41 AM

That cartoon might make a little sense if every white American benefitted from slavery. Most received no benefit whatsoever. Many lost job opportunities. It was a small number of elite plantation owners that benefitted. Therein lies the problem. Liberals want all white people to pay the price of slavery, something that happened 150-250 years ago. Because while its wrong to paint all black people with any kind of brush, paint away when it comes to whites. Lord knows they can afford whatever fee you want them to pay to make society how you want it to look.

#74 cantrell

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 05:08 AM

That cartoon might make a little sense if every white American benefitted from slavery. Most received no benefit whatsoever. Many lost job opportunities. It was a small number of elite plantation owners that benefitted. Therein lies the problem. Liberals want all white people to pay the price of slavery, something that happened 150-250 years ago. Because while its wrong to paint all black people with any kind of brush, paint away when it comes to whites. Lord knows they can afford whatever fee you want them to pay to make society how you want it to look.


Because when slavery ended, all minorities were given an equal opportunity. The CRA was a mere formality. Slavery actually harmed honest, hardworking white people. Oh, and if it weren't for those "white devils", all of these "poor" black people would be suffering in Africa. Hell, we did them a favor, right guys? Right? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You seriously cant see the relationship between slavery/Jim Crow and the income gap today? Are you aware of the brutal environment that was post-slavery America? Would your argument be that blacks and other minorities weren't relegated to being America's lower/underclass during the years following slavery? Would you try to make the argument that social mobility isn't limited in America for minorities? I wouldn't advise of any of these arguments, by the way.

Would you just go ahead and say that the income gap exists because minorities are lazy and just can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps like real, hardworking (white) Americans? Since you've got this all worked out in your head, how about sharing with everyone your thoughts on why the income gap exists.

Also, I feel like I need to address this directly:

Liberals want all white people to pay the price of slavery, something that happened 150-250 years ago.


No, "liberals" don't, if that's how you're defining me. I want equality. The income gap and the achievement gap are proof that equality does not exist in America today. Unless, of course, you'd like to make the argument that minorities are genetically predispositioned to fail.


pstall, I may be arguing semantics here but I really only disagree with you on your use of the word "excuses." I'd call many of the factors obstacles. But regardless, if you're putting in the work as I understand it, I'm 100% behind it. The problem won't be fixed until someone takes a proactive approach to it. Remove the "excuses", obstacles, whatever, toss the student into the sea of learning (lol), and allow the student to "sink or swim", adjusting accordingly. It beats the hell out of tossing them overboard with a brick tied around their ankle.

Also:

each kid grew up to shatter those lame stats and preconcieved notions. many went on to college and some started their own companies. there is nothing greater than to get a phone call or hit up on facebook from these kids who are men now and talk about the old days and them saying thanks.


This is what more kids need. Then there won't be any "lame stats" to shatter.

#75 SCP

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 08:03 AM

I don't, in any way, agree with this. His argument is that minorities make the choice to sell drugs rather than attain an education. The fact is, socioeconomic status and a broken education system result in fewer minorities advancing to college. It's not rocket science; it's sociology.


LOL, yea, you're right. Nobody makes the choice to sell drugs over studying. An individual has no choice in the matter, it's all because of socioeconomic status and the big bad education system. Everybody has a choice, it falls on the individual. Like I said before, I have friends that chose the quick money path over a chance to go to college. Maybe the disconnect with you is I am talking about individuals and not stereotyping an entire race.

And your boy cookinwithgas injected the term "lazy" into this thread, take that up with him.


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