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Cam Newton sweeps awards


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#133 DirtyMagic97

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 03:43 PM

None of those guys have ever worn a Panther uniform. I guess we have to settle for living vicariously thru them on other teams, since our own pocket passing QBs have always failed us. This team has never proven it could develop a Tom Brady or Matt Ryan into a star QB. All thats in its history is let downs and dissapointment. And no matter how bad they look, we keep trying to plug that square into that round hole over and over and over and over and over again. :lol: Rather than consider there are other options out there, and just because we take a chance on one or two mobile QBs doesnt mean we've given up on pocket passing QBs completely. It just means we're smart enough to see where this league is going. People are afraid of seeing one of these guys be successful for us and shatter all their thoughts and ideas of what they were told a QB is.


1. Neither has Vince Young...Do you even read what you type?

2. See extended list of QBs who are pocket passers that you clearly ignored.

I can't take you seriously anymore. I'm convinced that you are just King Troll. No one could possibly contradict themselves this many times and be serious.

#134 King Taharqa

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 03:48 PM

So being injured requires for an "elite" QB to throw his pads into the stands after being "injured" aka being benched?


Why cant Tennesee win without Vince? Theyve got several pocket passers. Surely they can win a game cant they? ;)

#135 King Taharqa

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 03:50 PM

1. Neither has Vince Young...Do you even read what you type?


But you're the one here doubting a "spread QB" can work and ignoring our pocket passing failures. Luck is not the first "messiah" to be promised to the Panthers fanbase. Chances are he's not the last.

2. See extended list of QBs who are pocket passers that you clearly ignored.

I can't take you seriously anymore. I'm convinced that you are just King Troll. No one could possibly contradict themselves this many times and be serious.


Once again not addressing my question. Why did Collins, Lewis, Carr, etc not work out for us? David Carr is a former #1 draft pick. Why didnt he work in Carolina? He came up in a "pro style" system and was highly rated out of college. Why didnt we win games with him?

#136 DirtyMagic97

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 03:58 PM

But you're the one here doubting a "spread QB" can work and ignoring our pocket passing failures. Luck is not the first "messiah" to be promised to the Panthers fanbase. Chances are he's not the last.


I'm doubting it. I'm not saying it can not work. The fact is, you gave an example of one hybrid spread/pro QB that has enjoyed some success in the NFL. And then when I gave you 10 times the amount of pocket passers that have worked, you tried to downplay it by saying they didn't do it in the Panthers uni.

The Panthers run a 2-back, I-formation, run-first style offense. I don't think Cam Newton has ever even been involved in one play like that. Can you not see how that might be a problem?

Once again not addressing my question. Why did Collins, Lewis, Carr, etc not work out for us? David Carr is a former #1 draft pick. Why didnt he work in Carolina? He came up in a "pro style" system and was highly rated out of college. Why didnt we win games with him?


David Carr didn't work out in Carolina for the same reason David Carr didn't work out anywhere. He sucks. Jake Delhomme enjoyed a tremendous amount of success in Carolina. I don't recall him breaking a lot of tackles or being particularly mobile.

#137 tarheelblue89

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 04:01 PM

Why cant Tennesee win without Vince? Theyve got several pocket passers. Surely they can win a game cant they? ;)


Ok, that's fine and dandy. You're ignoring the fact that Young has some serious issues.

If he is has great has you seem to think he should still be the starter not on IR for not liking the Coach or whatever his deal is.

#138 King Taharqa

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 04:12 PM

I'm doubting it. I'm not saying it can not work. The fact is, you gave an example of one hybrid spread/pro QB that has enjoyed some success in the NFL. And then when I gave you 10 times the amount of pocket passers that have worked, you tried to downplay it by saying they didn't do it in the Panthers uni.


I named one because I was only asked for one. Mike Vick, Don McNabb, are more examples of QBs who didnt play in "pro style" offenses have been very succesful in this league. Everybody falls back on Brady & Manning, but what about the 1,000's of other pocket passing QBs that have failed. Some of the 10 you named that are "working" havent won a playoff game.

The Panthers run a 2-back, I-formation, run-first style offense. I don't think Cam Newton has ever even been involved in one play like that. Can you not see how that might be a problem?


I see how its a problem for Jimmy Clausen. Just this spring people raved about Jimmy's intelligence and ability to perform in an offense that was similar to ours. Now those same people have thrown Clausen under the bus and are now telling us its really Luck who they feel that way about. Clausen is living proof the "pro style" argument is weak and bogus.

David Carr didn't work out in Carolina for the same reason David Carr didn't work out anywhere. He sucks.


But David Carr was a highly rated #1 draft pick. Taken first overall. How could the scouts be wrong about him? Thats impossible.

Jake Delhomme enjoyed a tremendous amount of success in Carolina. I don't recall him breaking a lot of tackles or being particularly mobile.


Jake did enjoy success here, but there's other QBs who've been just as or even more successful playing a different type of game than him. Steve McNair and Donovan McNabb are some examples of QBs who were able to take their franchises and careers farther than Jake playing as somewhat mobile QBs. To imply that mobile Qbs dont work in the NFL is self serving for people who only believe in white pocket passing QBs. Rather than state something that is not a fact and try and pass it off as such, why not just be honest and admit you have a strong preference even though it is proven to work any better.

#139 King Taharqa

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 04:15 PM

Ok, that's fine and dandy. You're ignoring the fact that Young has some serious issues.


Explain what serious issues Young has. Is he in trouble with the law? Is he about to be cut? Was he threatened or attacked? Dudes aint never even seen a pic or clip of Vince throwing his pads, and swear he's on his deathbed. :lol: All I know is, VY is on IR and is been assured by his boss he will be returning next season. Our own QBs dont even know where they'll be playing next season. Have you seen JR come out publicly and lobby for Clausen or Moore? I'd say they have more issues than Vince.

If he is has great has you seem to think he should still be the starter not on IR for not liking the Coach or whatever his deal is.


If he was as bad as people want to make him out to be, the Titans would win without him. They dont know how to.

#140 DirtyMagic97

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 04:28 PM

I named one because I was only asked for one. Mike Vick, Don McNabb, are more examples of QBs who didnt play in "pro style" offenses have been very succesful in this league. Everybody falls back on Brady & Manning, but what about the 1,000's of other pocket passing QBs that have failed. Some of the 10 you named that are "working" havent won a playoff game.


Michael Vick played in a pro style offense. He was asked to run often, but overall the offense was certainly pro style. McNabb was a similar situation to Vick. Sure, he was mobile, but the offense was largely pro style. The offenses we see now are relatively recent additions to college football. These all shotgun, 5-receiver sets that allow a QB like Cam to take advantage of small defenders and open space. His stats are largely inflated.

I see how its a problem for Jimmy Clausen. Just this spring people raved about Jimmy's intelligence and ability to perform in an offense that was similar to ours. Now those same people have thrown Clausen under the bus and are now telling us its really Luck who they feel that way about. Clausen is living proof the "pro style" argument is weak and bogus.


I never understood why people thought much of Clausen. He had one decent season against terrible competition. Jimmy doesn't have game intelligence or anything. I really think this is a good example of the "pro style offense" argument being taken too far, so I will acknowledge that.

But David Carr was a highly rated #1 draft pick. Taken first overall. How could the scouts be wrong about him? Thats impossible.


Again, Scouts can be wrong about him just like you can be wrong about Cam. We just don't know. Some players just don't work out. But having the completely switch offensive styles like Cam will just makes it even more difficult for a player to transition.

Jake did enjoy success here, but there's other QBs who've been just as or even more successful playing a different type of game than him. Steve McNair and Donovan McNabb are some examples of QBs who were able to take their franchises and careers farther than Jake playing as somewhat mobile QBs. To imply that mobile Qbs dont work in the NFL is self serving for people who only believe in white pocket passing QBs. Rather than state something that is not a fact and try and pass it off as such, why not just be honest and admit you have a strong preference even though it is proven to work any better.


Neither McNabb nor McNair went any further than Jake did. They all 3 lost superbowls just like Jake.

No one has once said mobile QBs don't work in this leagues. It's just a matter of drafting a guy who has never in his life played in an offense similar to the one he is about the be thrust into.

I have a strong preference for QBs who run our type of system and have had success in college in our type of system. I am skeptical of QBs who do not line up under center, take advantage of running the ball 20+ times per game, and throw flat-footed routes 2 yards down the field.

#141 King Taharqa

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 04:38 PM

Michael Vick played in a pro style offense. He was asked to run often, but overall the offense was certainly pro style. McNabb was a similar situation to Vick. Sure, he was mobile, but the offense was largely pro style. The offenses we see now are relatively recent additions to college football. These all shotgun, 5-receiver sets that allow a QB like Cam to take advantage of small defenders and open space. His stats are largely inflated.


McNabb played in a "pass option" offense at Syracuse. The "pro style" argument was used then to justify Tim Couch going ahead of him. He was thought to have better intangibles and a better experience in a system closer to the pros. Bet the Browns wish they could take that one back huh?

I never understood why people thought much of Clausen. He had one decent season against terrible competition. Jimmy doesn't have game intelligence or anything. I really think this is a good example of the "pro style offense" argument being taken too far, so I will acknowledge that.


Fair enough. I just feel bad how people throw Jimmy under the bus cuz he didnt live up to the hype. How many QBs do we have to ruin because we insist on putting them in situations they cant succeed? All because we're stuck on one thing.


Neither McNabb nor McNair went any further than Jake did. They all 3 lost superbowls just like Jake.


McNabb managed to go to 5 pro bowls and lead his team to consecutive playoff berths. Steve McNair won an MVP award. You wont find many NFL fans outside of the Panther fanbase who would equate Jake Delhomme on the same level as those guys. While he is our best and most celebrated QB, compared to those guys, he pales in comparison.

No one has once said mobile QBs don't work in this leagues. It's just a matter of drafting a guy who has never in his life played in an offense similar to the one he is about the be thrust into.

I have a strong preference for QBs who run our type of system and have had success in college in our type of system. I am skeptical of QBs who do not line up under center, take advantage of running the ball 20+ times per game, and throw flat-footed routes 2 yards down the field.


Our system doesnt work. Thats proven. We are the worst offense in the NFL. When you have the chance to grab a unique talent like Cam you dont pass that up. With his size, arm and ability to move around in the pocket he will be a dangerous weapon for an NFL offense. Smart franchises and smart coaches learn to tally their systems to their players strengths rather than force ones one them that have been proven time and time again they dont work. People used the "system" argument to say we didnt need Vick a year ago, but Im pretty confident he would've given us better QB play this season than we got from Moore, Clausen, and St. Pierre.

What I find hilarious is the way people talk about how these black QBs will play for us if we bring them in, is how Moore and Clausen play every week. LOL. They act like we dont see horrible QBing week in and week out.

Edited by King Taharqa, 12 December 2010 - 04:40 PM.


#142 DirtyMagic97

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 04:56 PM

McNabb played in a "pass option" offense at Syracuse. The "pro style" argument was used then to justify Tim Couch going ahead of him. He was thought to have better intangibles and a better experience in a system closer to the pros. Bet the Browns wish they could take that one back huh?


McNabb did everything very similar to what the pros do at Syracuse, but he had more freedom to run the ball. They used I-Formations and he lined up under center. He wasn't all that different from Tim Couch, actually.

Fair enough. I just feel bad how people throw Jimmy under the bus cuz he didnt live up to the hype. How many QBs do we have to ruin because we insist on putting them in situations they cant succeed? All because we're stuck on one thing.


I didn't expect much out of Jimmy here, but he has just looked completely overwhelmed. It's like he just doesn't understand the game.

McNabb managed to go to 5 pro bowls and lead his team to consecutive playoff berths. Steve McNair won an MVP award. You wont find many NFL fans outside of the Panther fanbase who would equate Jake Delhomme on the same level as those guys. While he is our best and most celebrated QB, compared to those guys, he pales in comparison.


I think McNabb and McNair were definitely better overall players than Delhomme, but we don't ask all that much of our QBs here. All we ask is that they not make stupid mistakes.

Our system doesnt work. Thats proven. We are the worst offense in the NFL. When you have the chance to grab a unique talent like Cam you dont pass that up. With his size, arm and ability to move around in the pocket he will be a dangerous weapon for an NFL offense. Smart franchises and smart coaches learn to tally their systems to their players strengths rather than force ones one them that have been proven time and time again they dont work. People used the "system" argument to say we didnt need Vick a year ago, but Im pretty confident he would've given us better QB play this season than we got from Moore, Clausen, and St. Pierre.

What I find hilarious is the way people talk about how these black QBs will play for us if we bring them in, is how Moore and Clausen play every week. LOL. They act like we dont see horrible QBing week in and week out.


I wouldn't say our system doesn't work. I'll say our system didn't work this year due to lack of overall talent, youth, and injuries. We had an amazing season 2 years ago because everyone was healthy, and it was the exact same system. I do agree about Vick though. As far as talent, I'm sure he would have made us a better team this year, but I can guarantee he would not have near the amount of success as he is having in Philly, and would likely be very average. But it was his character problems that kept a lot of teams away from him.

I just think it's tough to make a $30+ million decision on someone if you don't think their tools justify that kind of money.