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Chalmers Johnson: Our military is useless and expensive, Air Force worse offender


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#37 Fiz

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 01:56 PM

How much money do we make selling our useless military stuff to other countries?


hardly anything at all

#38 Matt Foley

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 02:08 PM

hardly anything at all


Outside of Israel, probably not too many buyers, huh?

#39 Fiz

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 02:57 PM

Outside of Israel, probably not too many buyers, huh?

israel gets relatively new stuff, since we kinda use iraeli offenses as field tests for our planned invasions. there are people who theorize one of the reasons iran wasn't invaded was due to how baldy hezbollah kicked israel's ass in lebanon a couple of years ago.

Officially China and India buy the majority of our old hardware. F-16s are a big seller, even though new ones are still being constructed. god only knows how much non lethal military equipment is sold around the world.

#40 cookinwithgas

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 03:04 PM

I am sure by "China" you mean Taiwan.

Latin America gets a lot of planes and parts from us, as well as ships (or at least they used to). Some of the old Warsaw Pact countries are buying F-16's now, and Australia has been a good customer with their F-18 and before that F-111 (thats a chunk of change) buys. Aaustralian Aardvarks!

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#41 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 03:51 PM

How much money do we make selling our useless military stuff to other countries?


Quite a bit. The list of countries we sell arms to is pretty extensive.

Moneywise we are the top arms seller in the world. The Russians sell more equipment, but ours cost more since its generally better.

#42 chris999

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 09:21 AM

the F-22 is needed. it is a bad ass death machine, read about it. with the f-22, america will own the skys for the next 50 years. also, we do need the carrier groups. we live on a continent across the ocean from all of our enemies. if they attack us, how in the fug are we supposed to strike back? we have to get there somehow.

the only thing mentioned in this article that i agree with is that the B-2 is a waste. it was developed before the un-manned movement came about. sadly, we could probably produce 2000 unmanned bombers for the price of a b-2.

we will not always be facing enemies like al-qeida. eventually, the time will come when we will have to fight china and possibly russia, especially if we dont get off of our dependence of oil.

#43 Fiz

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 09:40 AM

the F-22 is needed. it is a bad ass death machine, read about it. with the f-22, america will own the skys for the next 50 years.

who would we ever get in a war with where
A. the superiority of the f22 would be needed
B. it wouldn't just go nuclear

the f-22 has taken the better part of 3 decades and so far we don't even have a fully functioning prototype that isn't completely fuged up by rust or radio jamming signals on the ground.

#44 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 10:42 AM

the F-22 is needed. it is a bad ass death machine, read about it. with the f-22, america will own the skys for the next 50 years. also, we do need the carrier groups. we live on a continent across the ocean from all of our enemies. if they attack us, how in the f*ck are we supposed to strike back? we have to get there somehow.

the only thing mentioned in this article that i agree with is that the B-2 is a waste. it was developed before the un-manned movement came about. sadly, we could probably produce 2000 unmanned bombers for the price of a b-2.

we will not always be facing enemies like al-qeida. eventually, the time will come when we will have to fight china and possibly russia, especially if we dont get off of our dependence of oil.



IMO, we need a handful of b2's and F22's just to keep our edge. The latest variants of the f15 are still superior to any current competition, but we need the new technologies to keep that edge.

#45 cookinwithgas

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 10:46 AM

Fiz, you are out of your element on this one.

Over 100 have been built, over 90 are in active service. They work just fine.

#46 Fiz

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 11:21 AM

Over 100 have been built, over 90 are in active service. They work just fine.


oh really? how many are in Iraq, the war the US Government is actually fighting at the moment? Oh that's right, not a single god damn one. Do you know why?

Because, according to Aviation Week & Space Technology, there's just too much radio interference. To quote the man in charge of Air Combat Command, Gen. Ronald E. Keys:

"We didn't anticipate there was going to be this level of jamming. Every patrol is out there with personal jammers. We've got lots of airplanes that are also jamming. At the same time, we've got people trying to listen [to insurgent conversations], a lot of it on the same or overlapping frequencies."


The jammers he's talking about are the ones the troops use to disable roadside IEDs. So the F-22, at $351 million a pop, is an excellent plane; it just doesn't work over a battlefield where one side is using booby traps activated by TV remotes and electronic garage door openers.

So Iraq is out. And anyplace else with TVs, radios and cars.

Also according to Aviation Week:

(A) possible vulnerability in the stealth fighter's legendary electronic surveillance system--located in the leading edges of the wings and vertical tails--became apparent during operations by the first operational squadron flying in the Chesapeake Bay area. The strong radars on nearby Navy ships were overwhelming the delicate sensors.


So it also doesn't work around warships. FANTASTIC WELL WORTH ITand

they're working SOOOOOOO fine that they can't even fuging cross the international date line without being taken out.

tell me again how it's doing fine?

it's useless in asymmetrical warfare, the kind the US finds itself struggling with so mightily, and only succeeds in very specific scenarios created for it for wargames purposes so war fetishists can jack off about how completely dominant it is in an air superiority battle that will never happen.

but tell me again how I'm out of my element.

#47 Matt Foley

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 01:57 PM

Cat fight! Cat fight!