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Prayer question for the non-religious


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#16 Mr. Scot

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:51 PM

If there is no hope, how will praying to something that I don't really believe in get me anything?

I mean, really, you're trying really, really hard to prove something or get someone to respond in a certain way... desperate times call for desperate measures, right?

No, just asking.

#17 dimbee

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 06:09 PM

No, just asking.


Well, it clearly seems that you're trying to prove that those who claim to be non-believers aren't truly that and that they would for some reason doubt what they believe should times get desperate enough... as your ever more serious scenarios point to- that someone who claims to not believe would throw up a "hail mary" should it be a desperate enough situation.

Am I wrong in my surmisal?

#18 rodeo

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 06:23 PM

So, for some, let's say your child is on the verge of passing, there's not a thing anyone can do for them, no hope of any sort, you still wouldn't take a chance on praying?


no.

#19 Mesmer

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 06:53 PM

So, for some, let's say your child is on the verge of passing, there's not a thing anyone can do for them, no hope of any sort, you still wouldn't take a chance on praying?


I don't see why not. It's not like it would take long. For me, I'm in the "not really sure" category. I'm not stomping around claiming there's no god, but I don't really believe in any one in particular.

Throwing out a prayer would probably be part of the "exhausting all resources" method for a scenario like that. In a life/death situation where those precious minutes could be used in saving my ass? Not a chance I'd pray.

#20 Mr. Scot

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:51 PM

Well, it clearly seems that you're trying to prove that those who claim to be non-believers aren't truly that and that they would for some reason doubt what they believe should times get desperate enough... as your ever more serious scenarios point to- that someone who claims to not believe would throw up a "hail mary" should it be a desperate enough situation.

Am I wrong in my surmisal?

How bout if I respond this way...

Do you honestly believe Zod was "just asking an honest question" when he threw out his "should he have prayed" thread?

#21 dimbee

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:54 PM

How bout if I respond this way...

Do you honestly believe Zod was "just asking an honest question" when he threw out his "should he have prayed" thread?


You'd have to ask Zod what his motivation is/was for the thread

#22 dimbee

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 09:23 PM

How bout if I respond this way...

Do you honestly believe Zod was "just asking an honest question" when he threw out his "should he have prayed" thread?


Didn't Zod explain himself anyway?

Um, I believe I started the thread with legitimate questions that can have multiple points of view , and never labeled any of them as stupid.



#23 Epistaxis

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:04 AM

So, for some, let's say your child is on the verge of passing, there's not a thing anyone can do for them, no hope of any sort, you still wouldn't take a chance on praying?


Nope.

Now, another question might be.....would the faithful be a bit tempted to curse his god for either

a) causing the affliction ?
B) not making it go away ?

Since clearly it would be within His almighty power to do just that?


As the father of 2 healthy children, the very thought of this scenario is difficult.
But something as awful as sick/dying children does not bring on thoughts of a hereafter or a deity, but rather the obvious lack of one.

To me.

#24 KaseKlosed

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 12:02 AM

Who Said GOD needs a Religion to Belong to???

#25 goodlay

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 12:34 AM

Let's say you're in an absolutely desperate situation, in fear of your life or perhaps the life (or lives) of someone you love. Taking stock of the situation, you realize for certain there's absolutely nothing you can do to save yourself or your loved ones.

Do you offer up a prayer in the hope that maybe God will be there and grant you a miracle, or do you stick to your guns that there is no God or that prayer is futile and not bother?


No. Why, out of the billions of people am I somehow special? Am I the only one in an unfortunate situation? Life is unforgiving, and when something like that happens, you have to accept it. Look at all the people dieing in third world countries of starvation, or even over in Israel because of religion, those people didn't deserve to die, but they unfortunately did. It's not like some god came down from the heavens and saved them all, nothing happened. What explanation do religious people have to say about that? What about all the good, innocent people that die every day? And why is god going to save you for some reason above all people?

#26 Mr. Scot

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 02:04 AM

You'd have to ask Zod what his motivation is/was for the thread

I'm amused that you've known Zod for a while, you don't really know me at all, but you think you can read my purpose for this thread while you have to "not speculate" or look for a quote to get his :rolleyes:

Now, another question might be.....would the faithful be a bit tempted to curse his god for either

a) causing the affliction ?
B) not making it go away ?

Since clearly it would be within His almighty power to do just that?


As the father of 2 healthy children, the very thought of this scenario is difficult.
But something as awful as sick/dying children does not bring on thoughts of a hereafter or a deity, but rather the obvious lack of one.

To me.

That's the flipside of it, and not only do I recognize it as a possibility. I've descended into that very thing myself in the past. And I'm not alone in that regard.

I came out of it over time, but it does indeed happen. Some don't recover their faith. I did.

Without going into too much theology, the suffering of the cross is the traditional Christian answer. Point being that God may not have removed our suffering, but he has subjected himself to it.

#27 dimbee

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 09:27 AM

Your purpose for this thread is obvious amd transparent, Mr Scot. Don't feign amusement to deflect the fact that I nailed you on your ulterior motive for it.

#28 Mr. Scot

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:03 AM

Your purpose for this thread is obvious amd transparent, Mr Scot. Don't feign amusement to deflect the fact that I nailed you on your ulterior motive for it.

Yep. Nailed me. I am ashamed but amazed by your insight :lol: :rolleyes:

#29 Fireball77

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:08 AM

I am a non believer who has been in some scary situations. For example a car accident, where I was hit by a speeding drunk driver and one where I was on an airplane and we were told our landing gear wouldn't go down and we could see them on the runway below preparing for an emergency landing and neither of those times did I pray to anyone even in my mind. In fact, I joked at the time with my ex who was flying with me that the situation likely made a convert out of some people.

#30 Zod

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:16 AM

I'm amused that Mr Scot thinks he knows me.


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