And if a person puts off preventative care, that's his own fault. Of course I'm always in favor of restoring responsibility and self-reliance to the individual. Call me old fashioned, whatever.[/quote]
it doesn't matter whos fault it is. the society and government will bear the burden when they can't pay.
[quote]Preventative care shouldn't be forced on people.[/quote]
where did I say it should be?
it should definitely be encouraged, however, since that's ultimately cheaper and more efficient.
[quote]The point about it costing more money in the long run -- are you sure? Future Value > Present Value. $5000 in your pocket now is worth more than a promise of $5000 tomorrow, without even counting interest.
health care costs increase almost geometrically as a problem worsens. if you don't understand that then, well, there's not much I can do for you. the rise in healthcare costs in this country is outpacing inflation
for christ's sake.
also if you're going to try to tell me you can put dollar value on a healthy life, then you're f*cking out of your mind. since you're using extreme examples, are you really going to feel good when you can afford to have your legs amputated after the pancreatic cancer you never had detected because you refused to spend the small amount of money on a check up ravishes your digestive, reproductive, digestive and neuromuscular systems?
[quote]If I spend $200/month in preventative care, how can you tell me that 20 years down the road when the present value of that money is in the hundreds of thousands, that it will have saved me that amount of money in crisis treatment? There isn't even close to a guarantee of prevention from constant medical care... [/quote]
of course there isn't. however, yearly check ups are going to be able to spot something earlier, and the earlier you can spot something the more likely you're going to be able to treat it successfully and at less cost to you and your family.
[quote]in fact, real-life statistics indicate the opposite, that if you're predisposed to get heart disease, chances are you're going to get it, and all the preventative care in the world won't stop it.[/quote]
oh whelp can't do anything to make it better.
/becomes huge burden on family when money he thinks was enough vanishes after first year of treatment
[quote]Pros: Supply side solution, economically solvent, less socialized and therefore usually less expensive for most consumers and more efficient for the system. [/quote]
meaningless republican talking point? check
banal use of the word socialized? check
gross generalizations without supporting evidence? check
loose reference to a "system?" check
[quote]Encourages people to take responsibility for their own health. [/quote]
this assumes any disease is a rational actor which is ludicrous. if you believe you can completely insulate yourself from illness just by having responsibility you're out of your mind.
[quote]Individuals can spend their money on any health related service they want including alternative meds or new technology.[/quote]
ahh yes, the greatest red herring of them all; choice. why do people think they're more able to decide what's best for them than a doctor, especially when we're dealing with knowledge that takes the smartest people our society has about a decade to learn?
Traditional healthcare with emphasis on preventative medicine: (government controlled or not)
[quote]More of the cost of healthcare is hidden from the individual.[/quote]
this is patently untrue
like i already said, american pay more in healthcare related taxes than any country in the world.
[quote]Higher demand for doctors and thus better pay and more job security for them.[/quote]
this isn't true at all. doctors abroad get paid significantly less (though still significantly more than the rest of the population) abroad than they do in the states. this is due to numerous factors. however, if you think doctors have a problem with job security in this country, you couldn't be more wrong.
also payscale for doctors varies so wildly between specialization that it's really a useless metric for anything and difficult to apply, unless you want to compare what an oncologist in france makes compared to an oncologist in california.
[quote]Cons: Because much of the cost of healthcare is hidden from the individual, often the individuals feel entitled to more care than they need.[/quote]
just your opinion that you can't prove.
[quote]This increases demand on the system and increases cost for everyone. [/quote]
ludicrous statement not supported by easily available and overwhelming facts and observation
[quote]Consumer ends up paying more every year.[/quote]
seriously do you know anything about this at all.
[quote]Individuals usually cannot use their insurance to pay for alternate medication and usually has limited doctor visits every year.[/quote]
neither one of these is true at all.
for example, in france, spain, sweden, etc, you can see any doctor as many times a year that you need. access to specialty medicine is not a problem in cities. once you get out, it becomes a problem, not unlike here in the states where a small town in deer f*ck iowa doesn't have an acupuncturist.
also, the term "alternative medicine" is needlessly obtuse and pretty worthless. if you have a specific one you don't think is available list it and i'll gladly prove you wrong.
[quote]If one gets sick, deductibles and premiums skyrocket.[/quote]
skyrocketing premiums you say? GOD FORBID!
also you're wrong...again
[quote]Even when looking at the specifics, HSA still looks like a winner to me.[/quote]
these aren't specifics at all. you're amazingly misinformed.
[quote]If you're family is in healthcare, I can see why they don't like it. It utimately takes money and job security from them.[/quote]
this isn't true at all.
they're in administration, and people like you insure that there will always be a need for intensive geriatric care services.
Edited by Fiz, 15 February 2009 - 07:34 PM.