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Ron Rivera vs John Fox


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#16 dimbee

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:42 PM

1) Who do you hold most responsible for last year's debacle? John Fox, Marty Hurney or Jerry Richardson?

2) Does it matter to you whether the Broncos do better than the Panthers this season? If so, how much?

3) had the team gone ahead and made the coaching change last season, what kind of record do you think Rivera could have manager with last year's roster?

My opinion:

1) It all started with Jerry Richardson

2) No

3) 2-14

#17 Mr. Scot

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:47 PM

My opinion:

1) It all started with Jerry Richardson

2) No

3) 2-14

So for you, last year was gonna be what it was regardless of who ran the show on the field.

I know you've likely followed Rivera longer than most of the rest of us.

#18 Carolinablue27

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:47 PM

John Fox gave Jake a 5 year contract and then cut him. That was extremely stupid.

#19 dimbee

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:48 PM

Marty Hurney gave Jake a 5 year contract and then cut him. That was extremely stupid.


Fixed for accuracy.

#20 csx

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:50 PM

1) Who do you hold most responsible for last year's debacle? John Fox, Marty Hurney or Jerry Richardson?

2) Does it matter to you whether the Broncos do better than the Panthers this season? If so, how much?

3) had the team gone ahead and made the coaching change last season, what kind of record do you think Rivera could have manager with last year's roster?


1. Hurney/Richardson

2. I'd like to see them do well. I'm glad to move on but have nothing against Fox. I think that Fox and Hurney were a bad combo and amplified each others conservative nature and that a dis-functional atmosphere grew.

3. About the same, maybe another win or 2 at very most.

#21 Mr. Scot

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:50 PM

In fairness to both Fox and Hurney, most of Delhomme's teammates were still firmly behind him, even after the 2008 playoff disaster.

There's something to be said for knowing when to listen to your players, and when not to.

#22 DickolausJ

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:52 PM

More Huddle Speculation?

1.) Thats a Trick Question: The Real answer was a looming lockout. The FO didn't want to spend any money and Fox was stuck coaching a bunch of rookies who he knew he would never be able to really develop since he was only going to be around for one more year.

I'd blame Hurney more than the others for drafting players such as Everette Brown, and Jimmy Clausen; a long with signing Jake too a massive contract extension.

Fox didn't help either. He was running an outdated form of conservative football which the Panther's opponents admitted to being predictable. I imagine Fox's stale system was a contributing factor for Peppers departure, along with Smiths unhappiness. Also he was unwilling to stick with a QB switching in different players from week to week.

Add in JR's refusal to spend money and it was a perfect storm. Year was a wash. JR was just waiting for Fox's contract to run out to get rid of him.

2. No

3. 2-14; 4-12. I'm glad we waited to bring in Rivera for this year. Last year would have been a horrible start for any coach. The looming lockout was just too large on JR's mind.

#23 Mr. Scot

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:54 PM

There's definitely been ample speculation on whether Fox just mailed it in during his lame duck season.

More than one player has said they were barely coached at all last season.

#24 Montsta

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 06:09 PM

I think the blame lies equally on JR and Hurney for making all the cuts that they did, and Fox for refusing to coach up the guys he had because he knew he was on his way out.

More importantly than any of this though, is the fact that I am ecstatic we did not sign Harbaugh as our coach. I watch the 49ers games out here on the west coast, and he goes just as conservative as Fox did with a lead. Run, run, draw, punt. He also may actually be worse than Fox was in press conferences when it comes to answering questions without actually saying a damn thing at the same time. It's really eerily similar to Fox if you go on to the niners website and watch some of the video clips.

I wanted the guy earlier this year, but I am very, very, very, very happy we got Rivera instead.

#25 SauceBoss

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 06:22 PM

Rivera's great. I wanted him back in 07 after the Super Bowl. No one got him and he coached LBs for my other team the Chargers. When he was available this year I was like man this could be awesome. Then the initial interview. The guy is disciplined and creative. Not to mention adding an offensive coordinator who's predictability off his offense doesn't revolve around tecmo super bowl. 8 plays, 4 runs, 4 passes.

#26 weymouthst

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 06:31 PM

1) Clausen
2) I'll be watching
3) 3-13



This.

#27 PantherFanForLife

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 07:17 PM

Fox is a better play caller though...;)

Seriously, we'll never know what Fox could have done with Newton, but we do know Fox can do better in the running game department.

And Fox would have known to take the penalty that would have put GB in a 2nd and 17 instead of opting to take the 3rd and 7. Rivera's made two dumb calls in back to back weeks if you ask me.

Not that I wasn't ready to get rid of Fox, but so far I haven't seen anything I can honestly credit the coaches to say they are doing a better job with the exception of better press conferences and more aggressive play calling.

In the end it comes to winning, and so far, Rivera hasn't done any better with a rookie than Fox did, but Rivera's rookie is of a different breed than Fox's which speaks more in Fox's favor.

The yards and plays, I credit that to Cam, not Rivera. The mistakes such as not knowing to throw it away on 3rd and 1....or not sliding....or a million other things Cam has done wrong....I credit that to the coaching. They're the ones responsible for fixing this.

So before we go on and crown Rivera as if he's a genius, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Fox got us to a Superbowl and multiple playoff games. Rivera has yet to do that. And right now, I credit most of this team's success on Cam's ability and believe Rivera's benefiting from the spotlight.

But I have to see adjustments, I have to see improvement, I have to see mistakes go away, I have to see back to back illegal shift penalties go away and I have to see this team get a consistent string of Ws before I can pass any real judgment on our new coach. Most people saying Rivera is so much better than Fox, are talking out of their ass, and it mainly comes from their hate and disdain for Fox.

Disdain for Fox, I have a lot of myself and glad he's out of here. But that doesn't mean I believe Rivera's a better coach as of present time. That remains to be determined.

I will say this though. When it comes to press conferences and personality Rivera>>>>>>Fox.

#28 thennek

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 08:22 PM

It is way too early to compare Rivera and Fox. Let's wait until at least one season to do that.
Fox took over for a 1-15 team, and drafted Peppers. He benched the Heisman winning 2nd year QB, brought in a journeyman/veteran QB, established a running game & a dominating defense, and went 7-9 his first season. But both Fox and Rivera took over 'bad teams'.

Rivera: Took over for a 2-14 team, and drafted a Heisman Trophy winning QB. Already has 2 of the best RB's in the game, a pretty good o-line, very good TE, but has a lot of young unproven talent to work with. I doubt we win 7 games this year. Does this mean Fox is a better coach....can't tell after only 1-year.

#29 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 08:30 PM

we had a much softer schedule fox's first year

our division was poo then too

#30 Cyberjag

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 08:34 PM

1) Richardson. What's been reported/speculated on is that Richardson didn't want to risk paying two coaching staffs in the event of a lockout, so he decided to let Fox work out his contract. It's also been reported/speculated that he gave the order to purge the rosters of veterans.Fox is a good coach, and so is Mike Holmgren. But both were terrible in their last years, in large part because it was well-known that it was their last year. Lame duck coaches almost never do well (at some point last year I actually looked up a bunch and provided stats on this board, it was ugly). Richardson was clearly done with Fox's consistency, he wants the big reward so he decided to take the big risk. And in doing so he gave Fox the kind of roster that goes against what he wants. So Fox was totally set up to fail.

2) No, unless it's down to the two teams again for the number one pick, in which case I hope Denver edges Carolina in the wins dept (Luck is going to be worth a LOT of picks). But I doubt either team picks in the top 5. I actually expect Denver to have a better record, just because they get to play Kansas City twice. But the personnel are different, and the schedules are different, that has little to do with the coaches.

3) Assuming that the scenario extends to the entire staff, Rivera would win more. Chud is way the hell better than Davidson, and how can you be worse than Scherer? Frankly, Rivera's staff is more teaching-oriented than Fox's was, which is what you need for a young team. And again, Fox was also stuck with the staff he could get, because who would go to work for a single year? Rumor has it that after the playoff loss, Fox privately told his staff that they should look around, it's not like it was some big secret. Does that mean I think Rivera is a better coach? Absolutely not, there's no real basis to compare the two yet. But I don't much care which coach is better, so long as Rivera wins more consistently and bigger. And having Newton may be the key to that.

Nice troll, BTW. :)


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