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Reason for Optimism (Vs Bears)


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#46 panthers55

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:29 AM

That's a very good point. I was thinking more along the lines of Rivera getting all of the coaches to dip into the Bears gametape. It's probably not the case, but I am trying to rationalize why Cam had a sup par game.
From what I have seen (even throughout the preseason) is that Cam does better against 3-4 defenses, and has his poor games against 4-3 defenses. I hope this is just coincidence. Just trying to stay positive.


Cam overthrow open receivers and was inaccurate. Plus he had several dropped passes from sure handed guys like Olsen for example. They were the issues in a nutshell not including the weather. I don't think you can extrapolate it was due to a 3-4 versus 4-3 based on such a small sample. If he struggles again this week you have more grist for the mill. The only way to evaluate whether he struggles against certain defenses versus others will be when we have at least a season to evaluate. At this point he could struggle for a number of reasons and it wouldn't be definitive.

#47 Lout

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:34 AM

This whole concept that you can compare how teams play against common opponents to see how you would fair head to head is flawed at it's core. Football is about winning individual matchups all over the field on each play as such each game is it's own microcosm and stands on its own. You cannot extrapolate that because a team played well or bad against a common foe that it will have any impact on how you will play each other.

Anyone who knows football, knows that to be the case. So to keep comparing Chicago and us based on how we each did against Green Bay makes no sense at all. I know on the surface it may appear that it does but that is an illusory correlation.


You are taking a tiny snippet of my post. I have stats from all 3 games from both teams.. I did not break down the game vs Green Bay at all. I agree with everything you said.. taking 1 game and looking at head-to-head matchup is not indicative of how we will play the Bears.
And I even said that. "Obviously, past statistics do not win games, but I like what I see here."

#48 Lout

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:36 AM

Cam overthrow open receivers and was inaccurate. Plus he had several dropped passes from sure handed guys like Olsen for example. They were the issues in a nutshell not including the weather. I don't think you can extrapolate it was due to a 3-4 versus 4-3 based on such a small sample. If he struggles again this week you have more grist for the mill. The only way to evaluate whether he struggles against certain defenses versus others will be when we have at least a season to evaluate. At this point he could struggle for a number of reasons and it wouldn't be definitive.


Nothing definative yet, just noticing a trend. It will be interesting to see if it continues.

#49 edromeo

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:58 AM

....but I am trying to rationalize why Cam had a sup par game
From what I have seen (even throughout the preseason) is that Cam does better against 3-4 defenses, and has his poor games against 4-3 defenses. I hope this is just coincidence. Just trying to stay positive.

(Aside from when he missed a open Naanee by throwing behind him)
I thought Cam's play against the Jags was spotty because of: being indecisive at the top of his drop (especially on play-action)and lacking a sense of urgency getting to the checkdowns which caused him to be off rhythm/late which caused him to rush his throws which resulted in off target passes.

Could his rhythm be thrown off by the the 2-deep zone? Maybe.
Cam being off rhythm is part the of my concern facing the Bears Tampa-2.
Thus far Cam/Chudz and have been in keeping with their SanDiego Coryell roots as a vertical downfield passing team.
The Bears represent a unique threat because there defense is designed to take away the vertical passing game and they bring pressure with 4.
This forces a QB to checkdown at the same time the QB needs to be diligent with their eye as the underneath zone defenders will key on his eyes.
If there ever was a game to feature the TEs down the seams and to encourage Cam to pick his spots to break contain and try to breakdown the coverage with his run threat its gonna be sunday.

Edited by edromeo, 28 September 2011 - 12:01 PM.


#50 Lout

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 12:10 PM

(Aside from when he missed a open Naanee by throwing behind him)
I thought Cam's play against the Jags was spotty because of: being indecisive at the top of his drop (especially on play-action)and lacking a sense of urgency getting to the checkdowns which caused him to be off rhythm/late which caused him to rush his throws which resulted in off target passes.

Could his rhythm be thrown off by the the 2-deep zone? Maybe.
Cam being off rhythm is part the of my concern facing the Bears Tampa-2.
Thus far Cam/Chudz and have been in keeping with their SanDiego Coryell roots as a vertical downfield passing team.
The Bears represent a unique threat because there defense is designed to take away the vertical passing game and they bring pressure with 4.
This forces a QB to checkdown at the same time the QB needs to be diligent with their eye as the underneath zone defenders will key on his eyes.
If there ever was a game to feature the TEs down the seams and to encourage Cam to pick his spots to break contain and try to breakdown the coverage with his run threat its gonna be sunday.


This is insightful. Thanks.

#51 panthers55

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 12:36 PM

You are taking a tiny snippet of my post. I have stats from all 3 games from both teams.. I did not break down the game vs Green Bay at all. I agree with everything you said.. taking 1 game and looking at head-to-head matchup is not indicative of how we will play the Bears.
And I even said that. "Obviously, past statistics do not win games, but I like what I see here."


Nothing definative yet, just noticing a trend. It will be interesting to see if it continues.


What I am taking on is the whole concept that the results from previous games will in fact give insight into the future and help determine the outcome. Whether it is one game or three, the point remains the same. What each of our teams did in the first 3 games against dissimilar or common opponents will not have any bearing on this game. Teams install and gameplan for each opponent. Each team has strengths and weaknesses which the other team tries to exploit. Because one team or even three were able to exploit the Bears in some aspect won't mean that we will have the same success.

It makes sense to compare teams based on personnel, match ups, etc. But not to common stats from games with other teams.

#52 panthers55

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 12:42 PM

(Aside from when he missed a open Naanee by throwing behind him)
I thought Cam's play against the Jags was spotty because of: being indecisive at the top of his drop (especially on play-action)and lacking a sense of urgency getting to the checkdowns which caused him to be off rhythm/late which caused him to rush his throws which resulted in off target passes.

Could his rhythm be thrown off by the the 2-deep zone? Maybe.
Cam being off rhythm is part the of my concern facing the Bears Tampa-2.
Thus far Cam/Chudz and have been in keeping with their SanDiego Coryell roots as a vertical downfield passing team.
The Bears represent a unique threat because there defense is designed to take away the vertical passing game and they bring pressure with 4.
This forces a QB to checkdown at the same time the QB needs to be diligent with their eye as the underneath zone defenders will key on his eyes.
If there ever was a game to feature the TEs down the seams and to encourage Cam to pick his spots to break contain and try to breakdown the coverage with his run threat its gonna be sunday.


I think the lack of rhythm, late throws, etc were a function of trying to wait for receivers to clear downfield and overthrowing the ball to fit it in tight spaces. Even when he had open guys he tried to fire the ball hard rather than put some touch on the ball. He wasn't willing to take what the defense was giving him. As the game progresses he seemed more willing to throw underneath and let the receivers run for the extra yards. I think that was a positive in his development.

Hopefully Chud will work with him to recognize the holes in a Tampa 2 and develop a gameplan to help him move the ball and take what the defense is giving up.

#53 Lout

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 01:58 PM

What I am taking on is the whole concept that the results from previous games will in fact give insight into the future and help determine the outcome. Whether it is one game or three, the point remains the same. What each of our teams did in the first 3 games against dissimilar or common opponents will not have any bearing on this game. Teams install and gameplan for each opponent. Each team has strengths and weaknesses which the other team tries to exploit. Because one team or even three were able to exploit the Bears in some aspect won't mean that we will have the same success.

It makes sense to compare teams based on personnel, match ups, etc. But not to common stats from games with other teams.


I agree with you.

Stats, to me, just show how we measure up generally against the other teams in the NFL. We may be ranked 10th overall Offense and 8th overall Defense. Bears could be ranked worse than us in both categories, and I am not saying we will win based on how we are ranked. I was simply trying to say, that critics and oddsmakers shouldn't be counting us out before the game has played because we are not scrubs of last season. I am not getting into individual matchups or anything.. it's more of a respect issue. That will come with wins though.

#54 sguil1

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 02:11 PM

How does an 0-2 team have a trap game?

#55 Lout

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 02:44 PM

How does an 0-2 team have a trap game?


It's a game we are 'suppose' to win. We were coming off a hard loss by the Packers... Do you know what a trap game is?

Edited by Lout, 28 September 2011 - 02:46 PM.


#56 edromeo

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 06:01 PM

Hopefully Chud will work with him to recognize the holes in a Tampa 2 and develop a gameplan to help him move the ball and take what the defense is giving up.

One of the reason I thought Cam would have success here was because of coach Chudz.
I can't believe how little credit he got for his work with Derek Anderson and the Browns.
I'm excited to see what solutions Chudz comes up with.
I wonder if we'll see more of the running game in an effort to run them out the Cover 2 shell?
Or if they'll continue to spread it out and attack the seams and fades?

I think the lack of rhythm, late throws, etc were a function of trying to wait for receivers to clear downfield and overthrowing the ball to fit it in tight spaces. Even when he had open guys he tried to fire the ball hard rather than put some touch on the ball. He wasn't willing to take what the defense was giving him. As the game progresses he seemed more willing to throw underneath and let the receivers run for the extra yards. I think that was a positive in his development.

This is plausible too, but I didn't think he was overthrowing into tight spaces.
I just think he wasn't going through his progressions fast enough and that caused him to be late when he came off his 1st he had to hurry/rush to stay in rhythm with the next read; this an off target or a late/dis-rhythmic throw
I do agree that he got better as the game went on, damn that monsson!

Edited by edromeo, 28 September 2011 - 10:09 PM.


#57 Montsta

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 06:49 PM

This whole concept that you can compare how teams play against common opponents to see how you would fair head to head is flawed at it's core. Football is about winning individual matchups all over the field on each play as such each game is it's own microcosm and stands on its own. You cannot extrapolate that because a team played well or bad against a common foe that it will have any impact on how you will play each other.

Anyone who knows football, knows that to be the case. So to keep comparing Chicago and us based on how we each did against Green Bay makes no sense at all. I know on the surface it may appear that it does but that is an illusory correlation.


Interesting you say this, because I was listening to some sports talk here in the bay area and one of the hosts (Eric Davis, former Panther) was saying he thinks the Raiders could sweep San Diego this year again, but San Diego will still win the division because they will win 11-12 games, and the Raiders will not.

Not exactly the same thing but it's a similar line of thinking.

#58 Jacket60

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 06:51 PM

I don't understand why everyone is overlooking Matt Forte. This guy is going to be catching some screen passes, and the D has been terrible at spotting screen passes this year. I even called it during the Jags game last week. It was 3rd and long, I said "here comes a screen pass". What was it? Screen pass, luckily they tackled him 1 yard short of the 1st down. But they need to watch out for it against the Bears. Forte is no slouch, he should not be overlooked.

#59 edromeo

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 02:22 PM

Wow, 360+ yards against the Bears Cover 2?
Cam and Chudz have the answers for everything.

I honestly can't think of any reason Cam can't continue, heck improve upon his early success.

Whatever happens this season, I doubt that Cam and the passing game or the offense at large will be a problem.

Now special teams?.....