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The only thread about team needs you need to be reading this entire offseason


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#31 frash.exe

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:49 PM

No mention of Ron Edwards. Kearse was OK, and Shirley was not bad at times. Fua and McClain were awful.


It seems like we have the same opinion on the DTs, it's just that you're more satisfied with what we have, which amounts to a line that was abysmal against the run (dead last) and average against the pass. It's not good enough in this league.

I agree with the Brockers comments. He is risky, however, and MH usually plays it pretty safe in the first round.


there are like 5 people at most in any given draft that are safe investments. Newton was far from polished at the time he was drafted, the thing was that Marty saw in him a willingness to utilize his talents and improve his game. I see the same traits in Brockers.

So much of what we do depends on injury. Davis, Otah, Hogan, Schwartz, Gettis, and Beason.


well then that should help convince you to invest in DT seeing as how it's been decimated with injuries the past few years.

We really would not be drafting a RT. We would draft a LT.


Kalil is the only guy that would walk in to start at LT immediately. Anyone else would start at RT to begin with

Gross is 32 and might be ready to move to the RT.



Many franchise LTs start well into their mid-thirties

Even if we put our pick on the right side, we have our LT of the future. We could then cut Wharton and his $8 million contract. (he was average with a pro bowler salary). Sign a LB and S in free agency. Let Bell, Schwartz, Z. Williams, Gary Wiliams, Ziemba compete for the G jobs. You would then have depth at LT. Tired of watching Wharton play out there. If Otah plays, then great. Let him play. He is a free agent at the end of the season, and if he stays healthy, he will want big money. You need a T anyway.


there are a lot of misconceptions in this paragraph.

only one team in the top 10 offensive line rankings this season had 2 first round tackles starting for them.

I disagree about WR. We have a 33 year old little guy, a guy coming off knee surgery, and Lafell, who managed to have a decent year vs. second and third CBs.


then look at one in free agency, which is saturated with good WRs. I only said we shouldn't be drafting a WR in the first round.

#32 rayzor

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:04 AM

It seems like we have the same opinion on the DTs, it's just that you're more satisfied with what we have, which amounts to a line that was abysmal against the run (dead last) and average against the pass. It's not good enough in this league.

people keep on forgetting about how horribly bad we were against the run which was a weakness that teams exploited over and over and over. yes, it may be more of a passing league now, but that doesn't make teams stupid. when you have a team that has an obvious hole in one aspect, you keep hitting that hole over and over again.

there are like 5 people at most in any given draft that are safe investments. Newton was far from polished at the time he was drafted, the thing was that Marty saw in him a willingness to utilize his talents and improve his game. I see the same traits in Brockers.

agreed about brockers. it's about noticing talent and potential and a demonstrated drive to grow.

Kalil is the only guy that would walk in to start at LT immediately. Anyone else would start at RT to begin with

i wouldn't want a rookie starting at LT unless they were elite coming out of college. the only guy that fits that bill is kalil. if you want cam protected, that isn't the way to do it.

only one team in the top 10 offensive line rankings this season had 2 first round tackles starting for them.

good point.

i'd like to see where teams rank who have drafted the most OL in the first round. i know miami has invested a lot in OTs in the first. last i saw they aren't any better off than we are.

then look at one in free agency, which is saturated with good WRs. I only said we shouldn't be drafting a WR in the first round.

agreed. lots of FA talent out there to fill in gaps. replacing smitty isn't a priority right now. we can find good talent in later rounds. this is a deep and talented class of WRs.

after blackmon there isn't a whole lot of separation between the next 5 or 6 WRs. WR needs (if there are any) can be more than adequately addressed without spending a 1st rounder or even a 2nd.

#33 panthers55

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:00 AM

Much of the issues at NT this year were a direct function of starting a rookie. The same at the undertackle. The interior defense got better as we got some other guys who could plug things up. But we never had a great pass rush and our run containment on the right side was abysmal. So lets look at the numbers.

Football outsiders lists us 32nd in run defense and 16 in sacks. A closer breakdown of the line reveals that the left side of our defensive line (where Johnson is) was fairly good but the right side, where McClain and Hardy were, was awful. Runs to the left end and left tackle were ranked 10th and 13th. Runs up the middle were ranked 31st and to the right tackle and end positions were 32nd. Getting a nose tackle alone won't fix those issues. We would be much better off plugging in Edwards who will be an immediate upgrade, finding a dominant DE for Hardy's place and then plugging in some of the guys we ran through the roster at the three technique. With a better nose tackle and dominant run stopper on the right end, you don't need a beast at the three technique. Besides we had some guys who were pretty decent there the last 5 or 6 games.

Where we also struggled in the run game was giving up big runs. We were 31st in keeping running from reaching the second level and 24th in open field tackling. These are both functions of the linebacker decimation and lack of tackling by corners and safeties.

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

So once again I submit that fixing the right side of the line with a dominant edge defender and pass rusher is more important that finding a nose tackle. Plus if we were going to replace a DT it should be the three technique guy as much as nose tackle. Plus after signing Edwards long term and bringing in Fua as well as Shirley and others this past year, we aren't going to draft a nose tackle high, we just aren't. We could bring in a 3 technique guy but with all the guys we have used like Neblett, Kearse, McClain, etc we are bound to find one keeper. The key to the D line is the right DE which is not being handled by Hardy. Fix that and the line looks much better right away. Plus the linebackers will be more effective when runs get routinely turned back to the middle instead of being allowed to get the edge with no containment.

#34 Actionman0z

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:06 PM

When folks talk about how bad we need lbers and how we really dont need better dline play i smh and wonder ehat Games they were watching


Yeah Bro, because Jordan Senn could start on any other team, hes only a backup for us.

#35 CRA

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:14 PM

people also overlook that we weren't bad against the run just b/c of our DTs.

We were horrific against the run also b/c of the LB and S play. DTs have little to do w/ a sweep outside.......

LB and S need upgrades.

#36 panthers55

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:27 PM

fua and mcclain did not show me anything this past year that would warent confidence in them this coming year. sure, they should improve, but they were a revolving door up the middle, and as a result, made our ends look worse than they played all year. we need more help on the interior more so than the ends.



we were 32nd in defending runs over the right end and tackle spots versus 10 and 13 defending runs to the left side. The difference was Johnson plain and simple. The same happens if we can improve the right defensive end spot. It allows the three technique tackle to shade to the inside and help prevent runs up the middle. But when the whole right side is a sieve, it makes running up the middle and to the right side way too easy. Then linebackers have to protect the edges which keeps them from plugging the middle as they should. Sure it would be great to find a couple of DTs to help out. But if I had to pick one or the other I would go with a DE first.