Jump to content





Photo
- - - - -

Plaxico coming to Charlotte?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
275 replies to this topic

#265 Iceberg Slim

Iceberg Slim

    Keep it 100

  • Joined: 22-September 11
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 2,087
  • Reputation: 212
HUDDLER

Posted 22 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

Because it's slow and I find the topic still more interesting than top 25 lists, the weight of a Falcon player, or the replay of a game from nearly 6 years ago.


makes sense.....

#266 Guest_Bwood_*

Guest_Bwood_*
Guests

Posted 22 June 2012 - 11:51 AM

Because it's slow and I find the topic still more interesting than top 25 lists, the weight of a Falcon player, or the replay of a game from nearly 6 years ago.


So you're going to talk about bringing in a player that will never come here and that's already a fact?


Okay lemme join! I think we should try to make a move for Mario Williams.

#267 csx

csx

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 31-December 09
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 8,060
  • Reputation: 2,409
HUDDLER

Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:01 PM

So you're going to talk about bringing in a player that will never come here and that's already a fact?


Okay lemme join! I think we should try to make a move for Mario Williams.


I'm talking about our WR situation and the current issues with the team. Read before commenting and you will see my take on it.

#268 Guest_Bwood_*

Guest_Bwood_*
Guests

Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:05 PM

I'm talking about our WR situation and the current issues with the team. Read before commenting and you will see my take on it.


No you aren't haha....


All you said is that if our 2 starting receivers were to go down we would be screwed. That's a just a morbid thought.


Stop bumping this fuging thread, let it die. I'll bump this crap when Gettis and LaFell blow up the league next season and Plaxico shoot's his other foot while still in free agency.

#269 top dawg

top dawg

    The Creative Cat

  • Joined: 11-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 9,769
  • Reputation: 3,761
HUDDLER

Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:15 PM

Why is thread still going on, I thought we already said we are not interested.......


Because, it has transcended Plax, and is really about the real issue: Our FO has lacked vision when pertaining to legitimizing the other half of our WR corps (the other half being Smitty).

Cruz was an unknown before last season. He had zero catches. Everyone wants a Cruz but nobody wants to give a Cruz type guy a chance.


Perhaps, but he did have an excellent 2010 pre-season which cemented his roster spot. Giants faithful knew who he was because he showed flashes of big play ability.

#270 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • posts: -28,648
  • Reputation: 8,121
Moderators

Posted 22 June 2012 - 04:46 PM

Phuck, man, how can we not be used to it? It's been forced down our throats like Castoria when we were kids.

What really disturbs me, other than our FO's history with drafting and signing WRs, is that when you look at teams who have historically won the Super Bowl, they seem to always have more than one known, legitimate threat at WR (and, let's not bring up the 2000 Ravens, please). They have always had at least two actual WRs that your average football guy could name. History appears to say that you even need at least two to get you to the dance.

Ask your buddies who root for other franchises, especially outside of the NFC South, to name our WRs. The only ones who may know someone more than Smith are the fantasy football geeks. You can talk about LaFell and Gettis all you want, but everybody knows Victor Cruz (for obvious reasons, but that's exactly the point when you think about it). Cruz became a known commodity with lightning quickness. Moroever, the toughest teams in the league absolutely have more than one known and proven threat at WR, and a few of them have added to their fire power.

Yeah we have Olsen, but I don't think one pass catching TE can take the place of a threat at WR. I could argue that the reason that the Chargers have not (and will not) win a championship is because they just refused to maximize their weak link at WR. V-Jax and Gates (& Tomlinson) just were not enough. I hope that someone steps up, but our offense is kinda putting me in the mind of the Chargers right now. TEs (and pass catching RBs to a lesser extent) are supposed to add to the WRs imo, not take the place of WRs.

Moreover, someone (CSX maybe) said any team is screwed that loses their top guy. This is true in a sense, but the big dogs at least have someone that your average NFL fan can name to step up and hold the fort together. Think of all the top prolific offenses in this league, and then think of ours if Smitty were to get injured. Hell, as a Panthers homer, think of what happens if LaFell gets injured. This is not true with the big dogs...one monkey doesn't stop the show.

Like I said before in this thread, our FO specializes in question marks at WR as opposed to exclamation points, and this has lessened our effectiveness on offense (even with Cam).

how do "proven" WRs become proven?

how does a WR become a "known, legitimate threat at WR"?

it begins and ends with a question mark.

btw...name the multiple "known, legitimate threat at WR" on the patriot winning teams. on the Saints* SB team. on the giants SB team last year (and you can't use cruz because he wasn't a "known, legitimate threat at WR" at the beginning of the season).

it doesn't bother me at all that the WRs aside from smitty aren't "known" by fans of other teams. more than one will make a name for himself. and even if none do, we will still have one of the most known, effective, and dynamic offenses in the league.

#271 CarolinaPanthers8789

CarolinaPanthers8789

    Alexander SEMIN!!! FTW

  • Joined: 18-January 09
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 27,080
  • Reputation: 4,525
HUDDLER

Posted 22 June 2012 - 04:54 PM

How is this thread still going?

It's not going to happen unless a player of the wide receiver position comes down with a serious injury (8+ games missed).

#272 liljah8303

liljah8303

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 20-September 09
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 344
  • Reputation: 17
HUDDLER

Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:00 PM

da fug

#273 top dawg

top dawg

    The Creative Cat

  • Joined: 11-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 9,769
  • Reputation: 3,761
HUDDLER

Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:48 PM

how do "proven" WRs become proven?

how does a WR become a "known, legitimate threat at WR"?

it begins and ends with a question mark.

btw...name the multiple "known, legitimate threat at WR" on the patriot winning teams. on the Saints** SB team. on the giants SB team last year (and you can't use cruz because he wasn't a "known, legitimate threat at WR" at the beginning of the season).

it doesn't bother me at all that the WRs aside from smitty aren't "known" by fans of other teams. more than one will make a name for himself. and even if none do, we will still have one of the most known, effective, and dynamic offenses in the league.


I am not going to go back and forth about these because you obviously don't agree, or you wouldn't have asked the question. But, suffice it to say that some of these very WRs have burned our asses in the past (and others').

Patriots: Deion Branch and Troy Brown
Saints*: Marques Colston, Robert Meachem, Lance Moore & Devery Henderson
Giants: Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham (and Cruz became a household name for NFL fans fairly early this season).

You can talk about systems and their QBs making them all you want, but this still doesn't take away from their productivity on their respective teams. Every guy listed here will flat out burn you on the regular if you fail to take them into account, the Saints*, so much so, that they were nearly unstoppable on offense. Brees had too many weapons. Don't let your hate cloud the reality. Moreover, the fact is is that the Patriots who haven't won anything lately have consistently tried to make sure their holes at wide-out were filled with proven WRs (if not only within their system) that we could (can) always name if we are being honest. They haven't rested on their laurels, and as such could easily reach the big dance again.

I am excited and somewhat optimistic about our offense because of all the weapons, but I could easily see us stalling when it comes to teams that have a complete and battle tested corps of WRs.

#274 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • posts: -28,648
  • Reputation: 8,121
Moderators

Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:59 PM

I am not going to go back and forth about these because you obviously don't agree, or you wouldn't have asked the question. But, suffice it to say that some of these very WRs have burned our asses in the past (and others').

Patriots: Deion Branch and Troy Brown
Saints**: Marques Colston, Robert Meachem, Lance Moore & Devery Henderson
Giants: Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham (and Cruz became a household name for NFL fans fairly early this season).

You can talk about systems and their QBs making them all you want, but this still doesn't take away from their productivity on their respective teams. Every guy listed here will flat out burn you on the regular if you fail to take them into account, the Saints**, so much so, that they were nearly unstoppable on offense. Brees had too many weapons. Don't let your hate cloud the reality. Moreover, the fact is is that the Patriots who haven't won anything lately have consistently tried to make sure their holes at wide-out were filled with proven WRs (if not only within their system) that we could (can) always name if we are being honest. They haven't rested on their laurels, and as such could easily reach the big dance again.

I am excited and somewhat optimistic about our offense because of all the weapons, but I could easily see us stalling when it comes to teams that have a complete and battle tested corps of WRs.

my major point that you may have missed....did these guys come into the league as a "known, legitimate threat at WR"? and i will say that for the most part, these guys were no more established and probably no more talented (again, for the most part) than guys we have now. they were by and large products of the system and QB and that can't be discounted. you put these guys on another team in another system and most of them would disappear.

don't let your hate cloud that reality.

#275 top dawg

top dawg

    The Creative Cat

  • Joined: 11-December 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 9,769
  • Reputation: 3,761
HUDDLER

Posted 23 June 2012 - 04:19 AM

my major point that you may have missed....did these guys come into the league as a "known, legitimate threat at WR"? and i will say that for the most part, these guys were no more established and probably no more talented (again, for the most part) than guys we have now. they were by and large products of the system and QB and that can't be discounted. you put these guys on another team in another system and most of them would disappear.

don't let your hate cloud that reality.


First of all, I wouldn't say hate. For me it's more about disenchantment and disappointment with our FO in regards to their---now historic----failure when it comes to their vision for our WR corp. Our offense was arguably the most complete when we had a young, up-and-coming, yet established 89 stretching the field, a proven Moose that could stretch the field, and a vet that had seen his better days, but could still stretch the field in Ricky Proehl. The success of that offense faded away with Proehl and Muhammad's departure, and we've arguably been a broken-winged-bird offense ever since, or at least a half-baked WR corps. The worst part, and, in my opinion, near unforgivable fact is that this philosophy was detrimental to the career of one of the most dynamic and explosive WRs that the league has ever seen: Steve friggin' Smith. If there is any hate involved from my perspective, it's the fact that I love that Smitty has made a name for himself notwithstanding our FO's continued failure to solidly address the issue but I hate the fact that he had to do it under those circumstances (and, in my mind, continues to have to do so) while his window of opportunity gradually closes.

Now, of course I may admittedly be being overly pessimistic. But, dude, you can't blame me after all these years. It's a Pavlov's dog effect to what I perceive as our FO's ignorance or lack of vision at best, or utter failure at worst. Forgive me if I am just a little bit gun shy at the thought of LaFell, Gettis, and the lot of "unprovens" to reverse the trend, especially without another proven, viable veteran target in their midst to provide the push, leadership, competition and/or guidance to show them what it takes to be a champion, and, most importantly, take pressure off of Smitty and provide a safety net in case of injury. But, like you've alluded to, maybe that guy is already here and just need the opportunity to become proven (though time is wasting...).

Where I do definitely disagree with you is that the guys I mentioned are "system" WRs who can't flourish on other teams, or that in their Suber Bowl (and championship) years they were of the same stature and reputation as our guys. All of them, in my opinion, were highly efficient, if not extremely productive, at least at critical times on their road to becoming champions. One thing for sure is that it will be interesting to see how most of them flourish or fail within their new roles and/or situations. I will especially be keenly interested to see what Manningham and Meachem do on their new teams, and how Moore responds to Meachem;s departure.

#276 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • posts: -28,648
  • Reputation: 8,121
Moderators

Posted 23 June 2012 - 09:50 AM

you're forgetting that we have a new HC. the reason that we didn't grow and develop at WR and even TE for all those years is the FO was doing what fox wanted. they got the guys and type of guys that foxy wanted for foxball. the passing game was only there as a support to the run game. the passing game just wasn't important to him. all attention went to his "run the ball, stop the run" philosophy. what do you have when everything surrounds that idea? you get a 30 something over the hill QB, a couple first round RBs, a couple first round OL, and concentrate the rest of your efforts on defense.

another part of the problem there was fox's inability/unwillingness to develop young players and WR is a position it most definitely takes time and experience in to grow and fox wasn't willing to give either of those.

we have a new sheriff in town that by all signs looks to be someone that first, understands the importance of the passing game in a way that foxy didn't and who also is incredibly willing to allow younger players opportunity to play and get experience and, just as or more importantly, develop them.

lafell has shown growth in both seasons he's been in the league and that can't be denied. he's already shown he's no keary colbert. the fact he was able to get on and stay on the field shows he's no dwayne jarrett.

this year they get gettis back who we all saw perform incredibly well his rookie season and i'm not going to hold his IR year against him. it may take a little time for him to get to 100%, but there's plenty of time for that to happen...and i'm talking big picture here. there is also some solid potential talent in pilares, tutu, and in adams. edwards...i'm not going to go there but i will say that if he can have that light switch on in his head he could be a dynamic talent, but i'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

point is, what people are forgetting or are just overlooking is that the FO, by and large, gets the guys that the coach wants. in fact when fox was given his ultimatum by jerry to either win two seasons or experience a restructuring of the roster and when the decision was made to let fox walk, that one of the adjustments that needed to be made was that they didn't want the HC to have as much say in personnel decisions. implied there, of course, is that fox was doing what fox wanted to a fault.

now, i don't know if they trust rivera more or think he "gets it" better than fox did, but it seems like there is at least a solid collaborative effort between the FO and rivera and they are on the same page in a way that the FO wasn't with fox.

point of all that is, they aren't doing things the same way and i wouldn't at all take their lack of pursuing a "known, legitimate threat at WR" in FA as an indictment that it's the same thing being done. these guys are working more with the WRs, they have more talent than fox had for most of the time at WR, and they are putting them in a better situation to succeed. guys are going to be stepping up and we have a system in place and a QB that is going to help that happen. opportunities for growth are going to be there and the offense as a whole, esp. the passing game, is going to be buzzing along quite nicely and will be one of the best in the league without having more than one guy you can consider right out of the gate as "known, legitimate threat at WR".

lafell is going to be known more. same with other receivers (and that's including RBs and TEs). regardless of who steps up, though, it will be seen as the system and the QB that is the reason for their success and that is fine with me. people will look at the 2nd and 3rd WR stats and say that since it's so low that is a sign we need to go out and find someone, but what is missed in that is that the system and having a spread offense will not necessarily allow any 2nd or 3rd WR to "shine" in the stats department.