33 replies to this topic

[venom]

Why can't we remember anything from our previous incarnations?

Because our DNA has been tampered with...that's a whole other story in itself though, haha.

[Stannis]

http://m.samharris.o...-must-be-heaven


Sam Harris nails it.

[venom]

http://m.samharris.o...-must-be-heaven


Sam Harris nails it.

How so?

[Stannis]

How so?

Well, it's a long article, but I'll pull out the tl;dr version (he goes pretty in-depth in the article itself).

Again, there is nothing to be said against Alexander’s experience. It sounds perfectly sublime. And such ecstasies do tell us something about how good a human mind can feel. The problem is that the conclusions Alexander has drawn from his experience—he continually reminds us, as a scientist—are based on some very obvious errors in reasoning and gaps in his understanding.
Let me suggest that, whether or not heaven exists, Alexander sounds precisely how a scientist should not sound when he doesn’t know what he is talking about. And his article is not the sort of thing that the editors of a once-important magazine should publish if they hope to reclaim some measure of respect for their battered brand.

[venom]

Well, it's a long article, but I'll pull out the tl;dr version (he goes pretty in-depth in the article itself).

Haha thanks. I read the article...I guess the problem to me is that the parameters of status-quo science is limiting and doesnt cover the full scope of what reality actually is...therefore not recognizing Alexander's experience as being legitimate in terms of his explaination behind it. It is true that it is almost impossible to 100% verify this concept, however in my opinion it is due to the limiting nature of what science takes into consideration, as just stated. We can look at certain notions regarding psychedelic drugs, DMT and the pineal gland, OBE's and astral projection, dreaming, etc, as evidence of parallel realities and what some may refer to as "life after death," however like I said its not full-proof due to our vastly limited understanding of the world and consciousness. I guess in the end it comes back to a level of intuition with people...I myself am 110% confindent that these ideas are very real, and I do not fear death or most anything for that matter because of it...however I know this line of intuitive understanding doesnt hold water in the rational world. Its very easy to dismiss these ideas if you have not had a direct experience with it...so with that being said, I find it frustrating that others are so easily able to dismiss other's experiences that they have not had themselves. I personally have gotten my feet wet in these areas, which is why I can say that Alexander is right on the money imo.

[Stannis]

Haha thanks. I read the article...I guess the problem to me is that the parameters of status-quo science is limiting and doesnt cover the full scope of what reality actually is...therefore not recognizing Alexander's experience as being legitimate in terms of his explaination behind it. It is true that it is almost impossible to 100% verify this concept, however in my opinion it is due to the limiting nature of what science takes into consideration as just stated. We can look at certain notions regarding psychedelic drugs, DMT and the pineal gland, OBE's and astral projection, dreaming, etc, as evidence of parallel realities and what some may refer to as "life after death," however like I said its not full-proof due to our vastly limited understanding of the world and consciousness. I guess in the end it comes back to a level of intuition with people...I myself am 110% confindent that these ideas are very real, and I do not fear death or most anything for that matter because of it...however I know this line of intuitive understanding doesnt hold water in the rational world. Its very easy to dismiss these ideas if you have not had a direct experience with it...so with that being said, I find it frustrating that others are so easily able to dismiss other's experiences that they have not had themselves. I personally have gotten my feet wet in these areas, which is why I can say that Alexander is right on the money imo.

That's the thing, though. Personal experiences are all dependent on the person having them and their interpretation of it. So to say, "I had experience X; therefore, Y is true" is simply a fallacious argument. Is it possible? Certainly. However, I don't think any definitive conclusions can be drawn from Alexander's experience.

[venom]

That's the thing, though. Personal experiences are all dependent on the person having them and their interpretation of it. So to say, "I had experience X; therefore, Y is true" is simply a fallacious argument. Is it possible? Certainly. However, I don't think any definitive conclusions can be drawn from Alexander's experience.

Definitive conclusions no, however that doesnt mean it cant be probable. When I read Alexander's testimony none of it was anything ive never heard before. The synchronization amongst individuals who have had and described these experiences, is too much for me to dismiss at this point as simple coincidence or granduers of mass delusion. Coming from a person who has done pyschedelic drugs, I can say that it is impossible to fully explain these kids of experiences...you have to have them yourself in order to truly get a grasp on hoping to understand them, and seeing first hand where these people are coming from. Just my opinion though.

There's a great documentary on netflix called "Afterlife." I suggest you check it out if youre interested in this stuff.

[rodeo]

The synchronization amongst individuals who have had and described these experiences, is too much for me to dismiss at this point as simple coincidence or granduers of mass delusion.

Or it's cultural influence. Like I said on the first page of this thread, the visions of heaven described in western culture are always what's shown in movies and other cultural things from the area. Here's a source that describes near death experiences from Hindus, and they are, no surprise, absolutely different than American ones.

http://near-death.com/hindu.html

[NanuqoftheNorth]

[venom]

Or it's cultural influence. Like I said on the first page of this thread, the visions of heaven described in western culture are always what's shown in movies and other cultural things from the area. Here's a source that describes near death experiences from Hindus, and they are, no surprise, absolutely different than American ones.

http://near-death.com/hindu.html

Ok i'm gonna try to give you the nutshell version of my opinion on the matter without too many open ends, haha. I do agree with your mention of cultural influence...and would go as far as to say that it goes to show how much programming has been done on the human psyche. In my view, when you die, you then enter another realm of higher conscious existance...which doesnt necessarily mean its going to be the same for everyone. As we know, every person on earth creates their realities for themselves every waking moment of their lives...the law of attraction is very prevalent when getting into all this. Depending on your resonance within - including the vibration and contents of your thoughts, projections, and intentions - then becomes your reality on the perceptional exterior. Anyways, this same concept goes for the higher realms of conscious existance...however amplified to the millionth degree. Our core foundation of conscious being is centered around creation, and creating...it is the nature of our true essence in my opinion. So with that being said, its not a big deal that different people experienced different things during their NDE's. The reason anyone experiences what they do is the result of what they are consciously creating for themselves from within, for whatever reason. Nightmarish scenarios are generated due to the overall fearful/negative state of mind, thus the creation and experiencing of that perceptional reality...it is a reflection from within. This same concept is the reasoning for bad trips on psychedelic drugs.

[rodeo]

Yeah, could be that. Or you just die. Occam's razor.

[venom]

Yeah, could be that. Or you just die. Occam's razor.

The body dies in a way, yes...but the body is no more than a vessel for experiencing this reality...its not who we really are, in my opinion. It is known that energy can never be destroyed and can only be converted from one form to another. When you consider that everything is made up of energy vibrating at different frequencies, and that human beings have a vastly limited sensorial perception of all the energy around us, then suggests that there is infinitely more going on that we are not privy to experiencing. When you take into account these other dimensional frequencies, and the fact that energy can never be detroyed, in my opinion is further evidence that when consciousness leaves the body - whether it be through death, NDE's, OBE's or astral projection - it is then "transferred" to these higher frequencies of perceptional reality, which exist all around this current one...and where you want to take it at that point is up to you.

[rodeo]

Your body (and consciousness) only have energy because you eat food and absorb energy from it. When you stop doing that (death), your body stops converting food to energy and thus stops having energy. It's not like there is a big ball of energy and when you die the energy is like "Well, energy, where should we go? I know, cloud city!" Energy not being destroyed doesn't come into play, because it's not being destroyed, it's just staying in the plants and animals instead of you eating it.

[Bullethead527]

I question if there is an afterlife, at times it scares me.

[venom]

Your body (and consciousness) only have energy because you eat food and absorb energy from it. When you stop doing that (death), your body stops converting food to energy and thus stops having energy. It's not like there is a big ball of energy and when you die the energy is like "Well, energy, where should we go? I know, cloud city!" Energy not being destroyed doesn't come into play, because it's not being destroyed, it's just staying in the plants and animals instead of you eating it.

I would have to disagree with that. The first half of your opening statement was correct, however in my opinion consciousness is self-sustaining...it does not need an outside energy source to survive. If you fail to eat, yes, the body will "die" in a sense...however you (consciousness) will not. Dreaming and OBE's are parallels you can draw as further evidence of this concept, displaying conscious existance/experience when the body is in "shut-down" mode. Also, this "energy ball" as you put it, is not a seperate entity that you can direct and tag along with to "cloud city" as you described...you are the "energy ball;" we all are. As I stated in a previous post, everything is energy - including consciousness - which is the energy source that gives our bodies life, and is each one of us in our purest form of being. So again, being that energy can never be destroyed, and we (consciousness) are energy, would then mean that there is no definitive "end"...there is only an "end" to this frequency of conscious existance...unless you choose to come back of course, haha.