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Jason Cole Defends Cam Against Vince Young Comparisons

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Posted

Nothing about Vince's situation is similar to Cam's. Vince Young made the playoffs his 2nd year. Thats struggling? Is Cam going to the playoffs his 2nd year? Vince never lead the league in YPA. They're only compared because they are black. Thats it. Thats the reason you dont hear people calling Cam "another JP Losman" or "another David Carr".

Maybe no one is saying it in the media, but I'm definitely thinking David Carr. I don't care how big he is, when a QB is getting hit as often as Cam is and David Carr was, it can lead to irreparable shell shock and pocket nerves.

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Posted

Nothing about Vince's situation is similar to Cam's. Vince Young made the playoffs his 2nd year. Thats struggling? Is Cam going to the playoffs his 2nd year? Vince never lead the league in YPA. They're only compared because they are black. Thats it. Thats the reason you dont hear people calling Cam "another JP Losman" or "another David Carr".

JP Losman never succeeded in the NFL

David Carr never succeeded in the NFL

Vince Young succeeded early. You said it yourself. Then his emotions started going haywire when he was playing bad, or the team struggled. The same questions were asked about Cam. Name a white QB that this has happened to. Don't worry I'll wait.

Otherwise, have fun being ignorant.

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Posted

but thats the point. why is it like that?racial profilling will always be here.

You answered your own question. I think it's just human nature to automatically associate people with whom they share a similar physical appearance. VY and Cam are both big bodied 6'5" black men who play QB and bring an athletically unique threat to the field. Physically, the comparison isn't that far off. When people were making that comparison leading up to the draft, I told them straight up that I'd take a non-crazy Vince Young all day everyday. If it wasn't for his issues between the ears, I think he would be a damn good NFL QB. I think he showed that he could've been.

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Posted

Its not about how guys play, its how guys were sold. My list is filled with guys who were sold as "sure bets". My question is a) why did they fail? B) why are the guys who "play like them" not told they have to prove they arent them? c) if the "success rate" for "non-dual threat" QBs is so low, why are we seeing them get drafted every year despite that?

A. Success rate is low at any position. You'd be better spent why the few who succeed do.

B. Because few receieve the amount of national attention Cam did, and now he's struggling in the spotlight. No one cares when a bad QB sucks. When a highly heralded and wildly successful QB suddenly struggles, he has to prove that he hasn't flamed out. If he wins, the comparisons go away.

C. Again the success rate at any position is low. Dual threat guys get flashy regular season numbers. But what percent of Super Bowl winning QBs have been dual threat QBs? For non-dual threats, yeah, the low end guys have the same crappy success rate, but the high end guys have an exponentially higher success rate. That's why non-dual threat guys get drafted.

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Posted

Here's the list....

*-denotes still active

2002

1 David Carr*

3 Joey Harrington

81 Josh Mccown

137 Randy Fasani

163 Brandon Doman

164 Craig Nall

186 J.T. O'Sullivan

205 Steve Bellisari

216 Seth Burford

232 Jeff Kelly

236 Wes Pate

UNDRAFTED

Shaun Hill*

2003

1 Carson Palmer*

19 Kyle Boller

22 Rex Grossman*

88 Dave Ragone

97 Chris Simms

163 Brian St. Pierre

200 Brooks Bollinger

201 Kliff Kingsbury

232 Gibran Hamdan

241 Ken Dorsey

UNDRAFTED

Tony Romo*

2004

1 Eli Manning*

4 Phillip Rivers*

11 Ben Roethlisberger*

22 JP Losman

90 Matt Schaub*

106 Luke McCown*

148 Craig Kenzel

185 Andy Hall

187 Josh Harris*

193 Jim Sorgi

201 Jeff Smoker

202 John Navarre

217 Cody Pickett

218 Casey Bramlet

225 Matt Mauck

248 BJ Symons

2005

1 Alex Smith*

24 Aaron Rodgers*

67 Charlie Frye

85 David Greene

106 Kyle Orton*

121 Stefan Lefors

145 Dan Orlovsky

213 Derek Anderson*

230 Matt Cassel*

250 Ryan Fitzpatrick*

UNDRAFTED

Jason White (former Heisman winner)

2006

10 Matt Leinart*

11 Jay Cutler*

49 Kellen Clemens*

81 Charlie Whitehurst*

85 Brodie Croyle

148 Ingle Martin

194 Bruce Gradkowski*

2007

22 Brady Quinn*

36 Kevin Kolb*

40 John Beck*

43 Drew Stanton*

92 Trent Edwards*

151 Jeff Rowe

205 Jordan Palmer

217 Tyler Thigpen*

UNDRAFTED

Matt Moore*

2008

3 Matt Ryan*

18 Joe Flacco*

56 Brian Brohm

57 Chad Henne*

137 John David Booty

186 Colt Brennan

209 Matt Flynn*

223 Alex Brink

UNDRAFTED

Caleb Hanie*

2009

1 Matt Stafford*

5 Mark Sanchez*

101 Stephen McGee

151 Rhett Bomar

196 Keith Null

201 Curtis Painter

UNDRAFTED

Bryan Hoyer

Graham Harrell*

2010

1 Sam Bradford*

25 The Golden Calf of Bristol*

48 Jimmy Clausen*

85 Colt McCoy*

122 Mike Kafka

155 John Skelton*

176 Rusty Smith*

209 Levi Brown

233 Gabriel Torres

239 Sean Canfield

250 Zac Robinson*

UNDRAFTED

Max Hall

2011

8 Jake Locker*

10 Blaine Gabbert*

12 Christian Ponder*

35 Andy Dalton*

74 Ryan Mallett*

135 Ricky Stanzi*

152 TJ Yates*

160 Nathan Enderle

208 Greg McElroy*

2012

1 Andrew Luck*

8 Ryan Tannehill*

22 Brandon Weeden*

57 Brock Osweiler*

88 Nick Foles*

102 Kirk Cousins*

185 Ryan Lindley*

253 Chandler Harnish*

UNDRAFTED

Case Keenum*

Kellen Moore*

Alex Tanney*

Austin Davis*

116 QBs TOTAL

104 drafted

12 undrafted

63 active in 2012

6 Super Bowl Rings (Eli 2, Big Ben 2, Rodgers 1, Kingsbury as a NE backup)

4 Super Bowl MVPs (Eli 2, Big Ben 1, Rodgers 1)

1 MVP Aaron Rodgers

21 pro bowl appearances by 12 players (Palmer 2, Romo 3, Eli 2, Rivers 4, Big Ben 2, Schaub 1, Rodgers 2, Derek Anderson 1, Cassel 1, Cutler 1, Ryan 1, Dalton 1). So about 10% of the guys on my list have played in or been selected to a pro bowl over the last 10 years.

11 have Playoff wins or roughly 10% (Grossman, Romo, Eli, Rivers, Big Ben, Smith, Rodgers, Cutler, Flacco, Sanchez, The Golden Calf of Bristol)

4,000+ yard passing season = 9 players or less than 10% (Palmer 2, Romo 3, Eli 3, Rivers 4, Big Ben 2, Schaub 2, Rodgers 3, Cutler 1, Stafford 1)

When i look at this list, I dont see the next Brady in there or the next Peyton. I see a bunch of guys who didnt live up to the hype, and a handful who have and have had good careers. So out of all these guys who didnt make it, the only guys we can compare a "struggling" Cam to is someone of his own race?

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Posted

When i look at this list, I dont see the next Brady in there or the next Peyton. I see a bunch of guys who didnt live up to the hype, and a handful who have and have had good careers. So out of all these guys who didnt make it, the only guys we can compare a "struggling" Cam to is someone of his own race?

First of all, you look at a list with Aaron Rodgers on it and you don't see the next Peyton or Brady? Not the issue at hand, just amusing.

Never the less, there were maybe two QBs on that list who were even marginally comparable to Cam Newton as far as playing ability, pre-draft hype, early career struggles, potential to flame out, and relative draft position. Most were either late round picks, so it's no surprise they never succeeded, a majority never played, much less started, and more still in the relative draft range have had success, and therefore aren't being considered.

Maybe, just maybe you could compare the Cam Newton situation to Matt Leinart. But first, their playing styles are totally different. Second, Leinert never even had a modicum of success in the league. He didn't have a sophmore slump, he had a Pro Career slump.

So yeah, Vince Young is an apt comparison. Sorry, I think the facts control for race.

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Posted

THANK GOD SOMEONE IN THE MEDIA FINALLY REALIZED THIS

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Posted

Pulling the race card in a league that is predominantly black athletes. Go take your shoe off and kick a brick wall KT

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Posted

Pulling the race card in a league that is predominantly black athletes. Go take your shoe off and kick a brick wall KT

Thats the exact thing though cause the QB is predominatly what?

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Posted

Thats the exact thing though cause the QB is predominatly what?

Yeah that's fine but I don't care to hear anything about race in the NFL when,

WR is dominated by what?

RB is dominated by what?

CB is dominated by what?

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Posted

Cam hasn't shot anyone, beat up anyone, raped anyone, or had a DUI.

So how about we stick to talking about his play.

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Posted

That was a good write up, and like most I really wish the media would stop comparing the two but we all know that will never happen.

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