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Samuel L. Jackson

You fail at religion if:

51 posts in this topic

whoa whoa whoa...

"open prejudice" ???

What are you talking about? Are you saying I'm prejudiced because I don't understand how anyone can shun one belief as crazy, but believe something just as crazy?

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whoa whoa whoa...

"open prejudice" ???

What are you talking about? Are you saying I'm prejudiced because I don't understand how anyone can shun one belief as crazy, but believe something just as crazy?

That would be a similar prejudice to maintaining that all beliefs are crazy.

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Inimicus...

I feel like, and don't hate me for making an assumption, that you are in a spot that I once was...

You have rejected a lot of what is taught in mainstream religion, but you still want to hold onto the fundamental elements contained within it... I think that is a wonderful thing to do...

Again, I'm assuming that you believe that Jesus is the son of God and that he died for all of mankind's sins?

Yes and no.

I believe that Jesus was a great prophet and his death was meaningful to me as a Christian, but I do not recognize his divinity.

If Christ was the son of God and not a man then his "sinless" life was not a significant event and largely invalidates his death. By comparison if Gandhi was divine his resistance would not have been the magnificent triumph that it was.

My question is, if you reject other things, how can you truly 100% believe something like that?

I'm not saying it's wrong, because I don't know... I don't think anyone does really, but I do have a good idea that it's not the truth...

Also, do you HAVE to believe that to be a good person, or to feel like once this life is over you have done all you can for humanity?

I think it's a fear driven belief...

By no means do I think that you have to believe as I do for your life to be meaningful and worthwhile.

As for how I believe in God, you dont want me to use the word faith so Ill take this route...

I choose to believe in God the same way I choose to believe in the love of my wife. I cant prove that she loves me anymore than I can prove God exists but Ive decided that I don't need to.

Hell even if in the end I'm wrong, Ive still lived a life where I strived to live by a set of guiding principles that hopefully has left this world a little bit better off through the positive impact Ive had on those people Ive encountered along the way.

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whoa whoa whoa...

"open prejudice" ???

What are you talking about? Are you saying I'm prejudiced because I don't understand how anyone can shun one belief as crazy, but believe something just as crazy?

I almost deleted that post as soon as I made it because I kinda "shot from the hip" there.

It was a response to the whole all Christians are close minded lemmings tone I picked up. My apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

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Hell even if in the end I'm wrong, Ive still lived a life where I strived to live by a set of guiding principles that hopefully has left this world a little bit better off through the positive impact Ive had on those people Ive encountered along the way.

This is almost identical to how I try to live, but again, I don't feel the need to HAVE to believe in God to acheive it... I guess that is the main thing that sets us apart and what I really fail to understand...

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I guess some can only do good out of fear of retribution for not doing so. It's a shame that it isn't their consciences that are enforcing the doing of good. Some of us are more responsible concerning our morality than others it seems.

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lol congratulations you use star trek and matthew mcconaughey to justify your stupid beliefs.

Thanks Dr.Suess. Boo hoo. You hurt my feelings.

Not justify but an analogy pencil neck. You see, an analogy is when you use something similar to relay a point so..oh nevermind.

I don't have to justify anything to anyone. Especially to some guy who can't even pay a hooker to spend time with him in public ala The Girl Next Door.

You are a poor mans Bill Mahr, bitter and obtuse before you have reached 25. You will be the guy in the old folks home who complains about the kids visiting the OTHER tenants when deep down you know you have driven everyone away from you because of your sheer arrogance and ineptness at being close to people.

All because of E Harmony pulling the plug on you.

Sad dude. Sad. :nonod: I will go chop my fingers off now so you can feel superior again.

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It came up once in this thread. I think Hawk said it.

To paraphrase "why do you care what other people believe?".

ok

If it was only that simple.

Atheists and Agnostics feel that anyone willing to accept the Bible as the word of God, and Jesus as the son of God might also be willing to listen a bit to carefully to the voices.

I guess I would say this reminds me of the GWB "talking to God" and knowing his decision to invade Iraq was the right one.

Now, many will say that hindsight is 20/20, and I'm cherrypicking my example. Fair enough.

And someone using strictly rational contemplation of the facts (as we knew them at the time) might have come to the same conclusion and taken the same actions.

But, it strikes many non-believers as the kind of stuff that religion can get involved in outside the realm of a personal relationship with the Almighty.

Because it just never seems to stay personal.

People want to spread the Good News.

Want to use spirituality to guide important decision making.

And, the American public, by and large, wholeheartedly APPROVES of this methodology.

This perplexes and sometimes annoys the non-believer.

The believer may say, "how is this any different than playing a hunch, a gut instinct?"

Well, I say it is different.

Because I submit that you aren't playing a hunch, or a gut instinct, but rather interpreting events through what you believe to be "God's plan". Just like GWB did. Or at least we have been told he used prayer and conversation with the Spirit to help him make his decision.

Perhaps I am making too much of both that incident and maybe the entire issue.

All I can say is, when I personally was "on fire" and a true believer, my ability to see the non-christian perspective on matters was almost nil.

Was this strictly a personal failing? Perhaps.

Absolutes existed, and were, in fact, very common.

But I can speak from both sides of this fence, and I know that I am a better person as a more rational person, rather than a "faith based" one.

I'm not sure if that made any sense.

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It came up once in this thread. I think Hawk said it.

To paraphrase "why do you care what other people believe?".

ok

If it was only that simple.

Atheists and Agnostics feel that anyone willing to accept the Bible as the word of God, and Jesus as the son of God might also be willing to listen a bit to carefully to the voices.

I guess I would say this reminds me of the GWB "talking to God" and knowing his decision to invade Iraq was the right one.

Now, many will say that hindsight is 20/20, and I'm cherrypicking my example. Fair enough.

And someone using strictly rational contemplation of the facts (as we knew them at the time) might have come to the same conclusion and taken the same actions.

But, it strikes many non-believers as the kind of stuff that religion can get involved in outside the realm of a personal relationship with the Almighty.

Because it just never seems to stay personal.

People want to spread the Good News.

Want to use spirituality to guide important decision making.

And, the American public, by and large, wholeheartedly APPROVES of this methodology.

This perplexes and sometimes annoys the non-believer.

The believer may say, "how is this any different than playing a hunch, a gut instinct?"

Well, I say it is different.

Because I submit that you aren't playing a hunch, or a gut instinct, but rather interpreting events through what you believe to be "God's plan". Just like GWB did. Or at least we have been told he used prayer and conversation with the Spirit to help him make his decision.

Perhaps I am making too much of both that incident and maybe the entire issue.

All I can say is, when I personally was "on fire" and a true believer, my ability to see the non-christian perspective on matters was almost nil.

Was this strictly a personal failing? Perhaps.

Absolutes existed, and were, in fact, very common.

But I can speak from both sides of this fence, and I know that I am a better person as a more rational person, rather than a "faith based" one.

I'm not sure if that made any sense.

GWB is an extreme example. Not well rounded, properly informed folks who don't get the air or face time to further distort things.

You have to use common sense in the middle of living by faith. Absolutely.

You got people that are against medicne. Is that biblical or what they came up with? Its what they came up with.

If me or my family needs medicne treatment, you better believe we will.

Will we also pray during that time? Totally.

I agree on being ready willing and able to listen. You have to. If someone wants to have a good discussion on this, by all means.

But as you have seen just in this thread, some can't or refuse too.

On the spreading good news vs policy. I believe in the separation of church and state. I get why the founding fathers put that in there.

Would I prefer to have prayer in school? Sure. Do I understand the political fallout and ramifications? Sure do as well.

To have anything closely faith based, even if it's done properly, those that typically don't believe have a very hard time reconciling with that and almost by default avoid that group or org to help. And that group may in fact have the best method going to help out. But because of the stigma things get lost.

It would be like someone not giving money to a org that say Sean Penn supports. Despite the possibility of the good that could come from that group, once they see Penn's name they go the other way.

Same with faith based groups.

As for spreading the good news, if something has helped you out or if you ate at a good spot or liked a movie why wouldn't you want to share that?

Now if the person sharing can't see the forest for the trees on somebodys reaction or understanding a time and a place to bring it up that is on them.

They way I see it, athiests or non believers etc are just as judgmental as the chirstians they disagree with. The only difference is one believes and the other doesn't.

Even in our most rational, even minded state, we still make bad moves and cause problems. Its called being human.

I have learned over the years that thru facts and data and spreadsheets and power point demos isn't going to convert anyone. It comes down to being a friend no matter what goes down.

Jesus himself didn't beat people over the head. He didn't even run around saying I'm the Son of God. He lived a daily life, didn't avoid people based on their background and made time for whomever. He would meet their needs on many levels and would tell them a way to live and it was take it or leave it.

Works for me.

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Maybe that's why I don't have faith in the idea, I haven't seen the spreadsheets. :D

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Take it, or leave it- and you will burn.

I find it hard to stomach that a God as supposedly powerful as the God of christianity would require simple acceptance as the ticket to heaven.

You can be a truly sh*tty human being, but as long as christ is in your heart, you are in the eternal club.

No sale.

A creator, stand-offish god....ok. Maybe.

The personal, prayermail answering type....please.

Because that god lets Falwell in, and tells Ghandi and the completely selfless Buddhist, or me, we're eternally damned.

And IMO the "eternally damned" run the risk of being labelled subhuman, and treated as such.

Substitute any major world religion if it offends you less as the persecutor.

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Just like every reasonable Muslim tells anyone who will listen that the terrorists and jihadists have completely missed the boat when it comes to their understanding of Islam, I will say this...

Those people who believe like what you describe Epi, and live as you describe are severely misguided and have twisted the faith to their own ends.

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