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What I've Learned From This Election


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#16 Cage

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:38 AM

It happens all the time. And the Dems just keep creating more victims and more constituents. Why then, would the Dems ever want any group to "rise above"?


Thanks for responding. So if I have this correctly, the fact that blacks and women have been "underachieving" for the past 60 years is because they are lazy, inept, and view themselves as victims. And if Obama didn't tell women that they are consistently paid less than men for the same work, women would not have been smart enough to figure this out themselves.

Ok. I love how people with this mind seem to want to gloss over discrimination, racism, and things like that because the playing field has been completely level for a super long time right? Of course some people blame racism and discrimination too much, but to ignore it entirely is amusing. Like it or not, some people start life several steps behind and can't catch up; to pretend otherwise and label them "victims" is naive.

#17 Iceberg Slim

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

This is not at all a racist comment, but keep up the good work. It is a fact that although blacks have given homage to Dems forever, they get stuck with the worst schools, very few opportunities to excel, bad policies for families and basically little chance to succeed. Thus the poor comment. Not racist at all.

Underacheiving based on the rest of society. Who could acheive when saddled with the circumstances they have been given.

You are guilty of being one of the oppressors when you continually run and yell racist, therefore negating any points or ideas. This is exactly what the Dems have been doing for 60 years and I thank you for making my point.



Really???.................

How do you put people on ignore

#18 stirs

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:45 AM

Why didnt the Repubs vote for their foot soldiers like Allen West and Mia Love? Repubs have proven time and time again they will never vote for in mass for someone who isnt a white person, no matter how much loyalty black repubs show. The Dems just dont stab their own in the back like that.


Dont understand.

The Pubs are the ones who voted Mia Love in as their candidate to go against an incumbent Dem. She lost a very close race. Repubs backed her.

Same with Allen West who had racist ads run against him, which is okay because he is conservateve and not a real black man. But Dems have him by like a half of one percent. Repubs backed him big time and loved the guy.

You, on the other hand have been conditioned. You will live and die like so many others with a chip on your shoulder conveniently placed and kept there by the Dem party. They have you, and you will serve no other. Those that try to break away will be obliterated by the Dems and their own race. You are one of them

#19 FurdTurgason

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:45 AM

Thanks for responding. So if I have this correctly, the fact that blacks and women have been "underachieving" for the past 60 years is because they are lazy, inept, and view themselves as victims. And if Obama didn't tell women that they are consistently paid less than men for the same work, women would not have been smart enough to figure this out themselves.

Ok. I love how people with this mind seem to want to gloss over discrimination, racism, and things like that because the playing field has been completely level for a super long time right? Of course some people blame racism and discrimination too much, but to ignore it entirely is amusing. Like it or not, some people start life several steps behind and can't catch up; to pretend otherwise and label them "victims" is naive.


That's not what he said at all. He said the Dems promise to help these people but in reality they don't. Obama's first four years were harder on blacks and women than on whites and men. Much harder. So who put him back in office? THAT'S what he's saying.

#20 King Taharqa

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

Dont understand.

The Pubs are the ones who voted Mia Love in as their candidate to go against an incumbent Dem. She lost a very close race. Repubs backed her.

Same with Allen West who had racist ads run against him, which is okay because he is conservateve and not a real black man. But Dems have him by like a half of one percent. Repubs backed him big time and loved the guy.

You, on the other hand have been conditioned. You will live and die like so many others with a chip on your shoulder conveniently placed and kept there by the Dem party. They have you, and you will serve no other. Those that try to break away will be obliterated by the Dems and their own race. You are one of them


If they loved them so much, they would've got them in office. Repubs just dont deliver. Its a losing party, ask Romney.

#21 Delhommey

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

We're not wrong. THE WORLD'S WRONG!!!

#22 stirs

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:48 AM

Thanks for responding. So if I have this correctly, the fact that blacks and women have been "underachieving" for the past 60 years is because they are lazy, inept, and view themselves as victims. And if Obama didn't tell women that they are consistently paid less than men for the same work, women would not have been smart enough to figure this out themselves.

Ok. I love how people with this mind seem to want to gloss over discrimination, racism, and things like that because the playing field has been completely level for a super long time right? Of course some people blame racism and discrimination too much, but to ignore it entirely is amusing. Like it or not, some people start life several steps behind and can't catch up; to pretend otherwise and label them "victims" is naive.


If you read what I wrote for what it says, you will come up with a different conclusion. But if you feel that to make a point, you need to insert words like lazy, then go ahead but your conversation is your own at that point. Again, if the scenario does not fit your mantra, just change the scenario and act like I called people lazy, then, you can be mad again. You have bought into the whole concept and are not a free thinker at that point, but a willing robot. You are better than that, but whatever.

#23 mmmbeans

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:57 AM

we may be looking at the actual end of national socially conservative politics... joy.

#24 Delhommey

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:58 AM

I could have never proven my point as well as stirs is doing right now.

Never.

#25 Cage

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

Okay, I will play.

When a party cannot inspire the electorate through future opportunities or the chance at greatness, they have to demonize the opponents. They do this by telling many groups how bad they currently have it and how it will only get worse if their opponents are elected. Hence, the war on women. Women had no clue how bad they had it until Obamas team started telling them how put upon they actually were and Romney would take them back to horse and buggy days.

Now, you have to wonder how much patronization the modern woman can take. Pretty much if voting patterns are any indication. Same with blacks. They have been a poor underacheiving group for the last 60 years and Dems have been and will continue to be the beneficiaries of their low position. All they have to do in each election cycle is to tell the black community that their woes are due to the conservatives and they fall right back in line. It does not matter that generations have never made any progress under Dems, they are victims of the right and the Dems are their only saving grace.

It happens all the time. And the Dems just keep creating more victims and more constituents. Why then, would the Dems ever want any group to "rise above"?


What I get from the comments I put in bold font is that women would have no clue how bad they had it unless Obama started telling them that Romney was going to eliminate Roe v Wade and, failing that, eliminate their right to choose. Your statement about blacks is ambiguous. You state that they have been underachieving compared to the rest of the population (which is true) but without placing this in context I kind of had to fill in the blanks for you. A lot of Republicans (I'm not saying you specifically) insist that the struggles blacks have in America are due to the fact they simply don't work hard enough. This is not true and they are out of touch; there is a whole complex system in place designed (it feels designed; things like this don't seem to happen by accident) to keep them from succeeding.

I feel like conservatives believe in the "myth of the selfmade man". There is no such thing as a self made man. He doesn't exist. Future success in life is determined by things like the school system you went to growing up, coming from a two parent home, and a lot of other factors. Some of those factors are self determined; a lot of them are not. I feel like conservatives emphasize the self determined factors while minimizing the non-self determined factors. Of course hard work plays a significant part, but hard work doesn't always guarantee success. Hard work does not always meet up with opportunity to produce success and that is the problem.

#26 stirs

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:18 AM

What I get from the comments I put in bold font is that women would have no clue how bad they had it unless Obama started telling them that Romney was going to eliminate Roe v Wade and, failing that, eliminate their right to choose. Your statement about blacks is ambiguous. You state that they have been underachieving compared to the rest of the population (which is true) but without placing this in context I kind of had to fill in the blanks for you. A lot of Republicans (I'm not saying you specifically) insist that the struggles blacks have in America are due to the fact they simply don't work hard enough. This is not true and they are out of touch; there is a whole complex system in place designed (it feels designed; things like this don't seem to happen by accident) to keep them from succeeding.

I feel like conservatives believe in the "myth of the selfmade man". There is no such thing as a self made man. He doesn't exist. Future success in life is determined by things like the school system you went to growing up, coming from a two parent home, and a lot of other factors. Some of those factors are self determined; a lot of them are not. I feel like conservatives emphasize the self determined factors while minimizing the non-self determined factors. Of course hard work plays a significant part, but hard work doesn't always guarantee success. Hard work does not always meet up with opportunity to produce success and that is the problem.


Okay. Now we are having a conversation.

If I were president, my belief system would be to make the path easier for people to succeed. I totally understand what you are saying about things determining your trajectory in life.

I know that a 2 parent home is better for kids, teens, etc than a one parent home. These are facts. I have said in pasts posts that there is nothing stronger as a unit in our society than a black father and mother. I have said that they blow away white parents in general. Sadly, for 60 years, the gov adopted programs under the heading of helping, which discouraged marriage. It might not have been their intention, but those were the results.

Again, you and I both mentioned schools. I totally agree with you that if you are in a school that sucks, nobody cares and is dangerous, then the chances are way diminished for your success.

I do think however that a desire for success is paramount. I also think of the verse in the bible which says "hope deferred makes the heart sick" We are not that far off in our beliefs, just that political parties need us to be divided.

And Delhommey on the sidelines continually whispering the normal liberal mantra.
He cares, if you don't believe him, just ask him.

My point is that conservatisim is not perfect but not the devil as many project.
I hope your studies and diligence land you a good job and again appreciate anyone who served the country through all the crap we have been doing with the military. I don't think you "need" a political party, they need you. Much luck

#27 Jase

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:20 AM

I've learned that my dem friends can act just as ugly to people as the reps did when bush was re-elected.

#28 FurdTurgason

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:20 AM

Hard work doesn't guarantee success. But avoiding work at all costs guarantees the opposite. That goes for all races, and there are quite simply too God damn many people in that category right now.

#29 Cage

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:22 AM

Ignore. I think stirs misposted. All i saw was my quoted stuff and no response.

#30 FurdTurgason

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

Let's ignore the fact that the Democratic party has a history of enacting policies that are intended to help minorities and Republicans have a history of doing the opposite.



Then why do minorities struggle more under Democratic presidents than whites do? Is it because of the minority role Republicans had in Congress during Obama's first two years? Romney hit the nail on the head in the first debate. Obama's first priority should have been jobs. Instead it was another entitlement program. Just what this country needs. Small businesses are dying everywhere.

Let's also ignore the fact that Republicans have long had ties to White Supremacists organizations and other nefarious groups.


So have many Democrats.

Whether you want to admit it or not, perception is often reality. Republicans have done nothing to change the perception that republicans don't care about minorities.


Because Republicans waste their time worrying about things like getting the economy back on track, something that actually will help minorities and women.


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