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What I've Learned From This Election


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#201 davos

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:55 PM

Deeper!

How's that feel, baby?


Deeper!

(in James Earl Jones voice) How's that feel, baby?


ok that was funny haha

#202 PhillyB

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:42 AM

That is an interesting theory. The only problem I see about it is that you have created your own Mindset X with this theory and now you believe everyone is of the Mindset Y (your hypothesis) and are not capable of independent thought because of their own sociological environment.

Therefore, you own Mindset X allows you dismiss all points of views because it is just a Y-er who is predisposed to their own mindfug because of their upbringing and social surroundings. Therefore, it creates a feeling of superiority because all the people who are of your new Mindset Y are too misguided to understand that they are blinded by ideals of their surrounding environment and therefore are prisoners of their own reality and blind to the real truth.

The end result is that you become a know it all asshole who thinks the rest of the world just doesn't get it because they are preconditioned to believe what they believe because they are blinded by their upbringing or sociological factors and you are clear headed and above that kind of mindfug.

The problem I have with your theory is it doesn't account for contrarians. For example, there is a large number of people who if they grew up in family with zealous beliefs in mindset X, and you are socialized to believe the values and philosophy of Mindset X, they will actually become of Mindset Y just to be different.

And lastly, this idea of yours is not new. As a matter of fact, it is a theory in "The Republic" by the Greek philosopher Plato around 380 BC and is known as "Plato's Cave" or "Allegory of the Cave". Instead of explaining it i will use Wikipedia to give the synopsis because I don't want to type it all out.



So the question is, are you the prisoner who thinks the man who has seen reality is the stupid one or are you the man who was released and has seen reality and believe the prisoners are misinformed? And how do you know?
http://en.wikipedia....ory_of_the_Cave


holy damn you may be my new favorite poster

excellent breakdown of my theory... which is full of holes because it wasn't so much a theory as a casual attempt to explain the dynamic i was attempting to reference (lazy ideological stratification that gets socialized and diffused accordingly.) i agree it is far from sound, and if taken as an overall theory of social mechanics would fail completely; but it was meant as a case example in a vacuum.

i also think you switched mindset X and Y... mindset X was intended to represent those who things into "them liberals" whereas the Y is not an actual mindset, but a subset of the stratification projected by mindset X. "Z is not X therefore it must be Y."

contrarians do pose a problem, but only in a world concretely described by the above (which again was not my goal.) but counterpoint anyway: is contrarian behavior in any way affected by socialization? the process of socialization can include many instances of data processing that alters the way one views the world; moreover, contrarianism is relative to the culture context, which may or may not match the original context in which the individual was socialized. there's a shitload of shades of grey.


plato's cave is awesome and epistemology is a total mindfug and the best antidote for sleep in my experience.

#203 PhillyB

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:50 AM

I didn't dismiss anything, Tyrannothesaurus Rex.


you engaged by quoting it and responded with LOL and then promptly disengaged by refusing to discuss it, Velieciraptor

#204 FurdTurgason

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

you engaged by quoting it and responded with LOL and then promptly disengaged by refusing to discuss it, Velieciraptor



Well played, Dr. Grant. Well played, sir.

#205 PhillyB

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:00 AM

Well played, Dr. Grant. Well played, sir.


if you knew how fuging long and hard i worked to come up with a dinosaur wordplay you would respond to my OP out of sheer awe and respect

#206 FurdTurgason

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:04 AM

if you knew how fuging long and hard i worked to come up with a dinosaur wordplay you would respond to my OP out of sheer awe and respect


I'll give it a triceratops.

#207 teeray

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:15 AM

holy damn you may be my new favorite poster

excellent breakdown of my theory... which is full of holes because it wasn't so much a theory as a casual attempt to explain the dynamic i was attempting to reference (lazy ideological stratification that gets socialized and diffused accordingly.) i agree it is far from sound, and if taken as an overall theory of social mechanics would fail completely; but it was meant as a case example in a vacuum.

i also think you switched mindset X and Y... mindset X was intended to represent those who things into "them liberals" whereas the Y is not an actual mindset, but a subset of the stratification projected by mindset X. "Z is not X therefore it must be Y."

contrarians do pose a problem, but only in a world concretely described by the above (which again was not my goal.) but counterpoint anyway: is contrarian behavior in any way affected by socialization? the process of socialization can include many instances of data processing that alters the way one views the world; moreover, contrarianism is relative to the culture context, which may or may not match the original context in which the individual was socialized. there's a shitload of shades of grey.


plato's cave is awesome and epistemology is a total mindfug and the best antidote for sleep in my experience.


The funny thing is, after I typed the paragraph "The end result is that you become a know it all asshole who thinks the rest of the world just doesn't get it because they are preconditioned to believe what they believe because they are blinded by their upbringing or sociological factors and you are clear headed and above that kind of mindfug." (BTW I wasn't talking about you specifically, just in general you always meet that person who thinks they have it all figured out and everyone else is blind or stupid)

Well after I typed it and re-read it I realized, "You know what, I am that asshole". If you look at my posts I brag about being unaffiliated politically as if that gives me superiority over the blind little mice who believe everything their respective party tells them even if it is ridiculous.

Then I thought to myself, "am I the prisoner or the man who was freed?" I didn't have that answer so I decided I will just keep being the know it all asshole that thinks he is superior because I don't belong to any political party. It is more fun and self gratifying that way.

BTW I tend to agree with your original post but being a contrarian myself I decided to see if I could poke holes in it just for fun.

#208 PhillyB

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:21 AM

yeah i'm unaffiliated and i love wielding it over ignorant little partisan minions who should be doing my bidding and will one day. until then they can suck on my free-thinking independent enlightened johnson.

#209 FurdTurgason

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:34 AM

Get a room. My God.

#210 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:45 AM

I concur. In 2016, Democrats will have held the Presidency for 16 of the past 24 years. I can guarantee you at that time they will still be using the same 'victim' arguments. Meanwhile blacks will still have high rates of single parent homes, poor results in education, the highest unemployment rates, and will account for a disproportionate number of violent criminals.

Everyone in the country is taught to have pride in their race except for white people and that has shown this election. Blacks have black history month, then there's efforts to promote Latino heritage and Asian heritage. Then there is the sex factor. Women and gays are taught to pat themselves on the back as well. If you're a white, heterosexual, Christian man, well, you clearly have so much privilege that you should just stay on the sidelines and show some humility... White people are told that having pride is shameful. As a result you see Latinos, blacks, Jews and Asians vote 70-93% for the DNC which caters to them constantly. Meanwhile the GOP receives only 59% of the divided white vote.

Many of the white liberals believe race doesn't matter. It's an admirable view, but it's something out of a fairy tale. Many white liberals are young, they'll reap what they sow. In South Africa there are laws that openly prevent white people from owning stock in certain companies and many companies set policies that prevent hiring white people. In Zimbabwe they continuously repossess land from whites - all for the goal of equality. In America white people are already negatively impacted by affirmative action, hiring quotas, and racial agendas (like hate crime laws which are rarely enforced against anyone but white men) set forth by the government. There's already a precedent for it. Do you think when a majority of our leaders are non-whites that they'll scale back on these racist policies? Unlikely.

Once you validate the status of being a victim it never ends. Ask Germany, to this day they're still paying Jews for their time spent in the Holocaust. I've read articles about Jewish babies during WW2 who can't even remember being affected by the Holocaust who are now receiving reparations from Germany.


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