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Overlooked stat for Cam


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#121 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

Wow.

Yes your top 3 targets do matter, because if your #2 and #3 receivers in targets are your running backs and tight ends, you're not playing the deep ball. I'm not talking about completion % when I listed that. I'm talking about positions and the percentage of targets to each position.

For example, Eli Manning's #2 and #3 are both WIDE RECEIVERS. He's one of the best deep ball throwers in the league and uses a primarily vertical attack.

This tells you a lot more about what they are doing than your silly aypc math.

And you didn't directly make that claim, you tried to back up his claim with your ridiculous calculations. His claim was that Andy had issues with the deep ball. If that's not what you are arguing, WTF are you arguing?

On this final ridiculous claim, I will just add this and leave it at this....since I can't find this year's.





Andy Dalton's AYPC in 2011 - 6.6
Cam Newton's AYPC in 2011 - 6.7

Cam's AYPC was higher in 2011, and he didn't make the list. This is what I'm trying to get through that brick head of yours! It's a stupid idea to draw the conclusions you are from yards per completion. Once again, you're wrong. GFY.


And his deep ball still looks good to me this year: http://www.nfl.com/n...ng-long-td-pass


Dear lord PFFL, you still don't recognize what you're looking at. He was fourth in completion percentage of deep balls, that doesn't mean that he threw the most. Then the graph you posted was for >30 yard completions, which ISN"T IN THE AIR. You're posting conflicting statistics.

Here's something for you to nibble on. In 2011 Cam ranked 5th in the league in % of pass attempts at >15 yards at 25.7% of his passes. Meaning that cam had around 133 pass attempts of greater than 15 yards.

Dalton on the other hand was ranked 22nd TWENTY SECOND in the league in % of pass attempts at >15 yards at 19.9. Dalton had around 111 pass attempts of greater than 15 yards.

#122 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

Now I am going to really stop responding to you as I have something to go do. Peace out loser.

#123 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

Dear lord PFFL, you still don't recognize what you're looking at. He was fourth in completion percentage of deep balls, that doesn't mean that he threw the most. Then the graph you posted was for >30 yard completions, which ISN"T IN THE AIR. You're posting conflicting statistics.

Here's something for you to nibble on. In 2011 Cam ranked 5th in the league in % of pass attempts at >15 yards at 25.7% of his passes. Meaning that cam had around 133 pass attempts of greater than 15 yards.

Dalton on the other hand was ranked 22nd TWENTY SECOND in the league in % of pass attempts at >15 yards at 19.9. Dalton had around 111 pass attempts of greater than 15 yards.


First, 4th in completion % of deep balls means he is accurate with the deep ball. This backs up the point, Andy can throw the deep ball accurately, yes?

Second, attempts are just that. Attempts. That's why completion % matters. Andy didn't throw a lot last year. He was very conservative and this year they are letting him throw the ball more. A philosophy I happen to agree with when it comes to grooming a rookie QB, if you care about winning too.

And finally, that was not the only thing that said, so let me re-bold it for you.

He also was one of six quarterbacks last season with at least 15 completions of at least 30 yards.

Eli Manning 21
Aaron Rodgers 20
Mathew Stafford 18
Drew Brees 17
Tony Romo 17
Andy Dalton 15


He had more deep ball completions than Cam Newton of at least 30 yards. There is nothing else for us to debate.

Look at his company and then ask yourself what does the fact that Cam Newton attempted more, and didn't even make the list means in relation to this deep ball debate?

I'll let you figure that one out...

#124 teeray

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:55 PM

Hey sorry i am late. Dalton sucks.

I don't care what obscure stats you look at, if you are attempting 31.5 passes a game and are only averaging 196.8 yards per game, against terrible defensive teams like KC, Oak, Dallas, SD, and Philly which is Dalton's last 5 games. You aren't getting the ball downfield.

Which is a shame because in the WCO that Dalton is running you should have much bigger windows to throw into downfield because most of the linebackers are having to stay up to take away those short quick passes.

It is a lot different when you run an AC offense and on passing plays everyone drops into deep coverage (which is why the screen pays usually work so well in AC offenses like CAR and SD). Not sure what all the stats are, i haven't read all of PFFL likely misleading statistical analysis. But a WCO you should always have a higher completion percentage than a AC offense and also you should be able to get easier throws downfield.

If Dalton ran an AC offense it would likely be a nightmare. But that is why he is running a WCO. It better fits his abilities. Much like I think the AC is a good fit for Newton... when we run it right.

#125 rayzor

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:07 PM

Hey sorry i am late. Dalton sucks.

I don't care what obscure stats you look at, if you are attempting 31.5 passes a game and are only averaging 196.8 yards per game, against terrible defensive teams like KC, Oak, Dallas, SD, and Philly which is Dalton's last 5 games. You aren't getting the ball downfield.

Which is a shame because in the WCO that Dalton is running you should have much bigger windows to throw into downfield because most of the linebackers are having to stay up to take away those short quick passes.

It is a lot different when you run an AC offense and on passing plays everyone drops into deep coverage (which is why the screen pays usually work so well in AC offenses like CAR and SD). Not sure what all the stats are, i haven't read all of PFFL likely misleading statistical analysis. But a WCO you should always have a higher completion percentage than a AC offense and also you should be able to get easier throws downfield.

If Dalton ran an AC offense it would likely be a nightmare. But that is why he is running a WCO. It better fits his abilities. Much like I think the AC is a good fit for Newton... when we run it right.

absolute truth.

a WCO is a completion percentage inflating system. it always has been. it comes with the scheme. a coryell usually has lower comp. % just because of the nature of the system. you have one that the majority of the passes are short and quick high percentage under 15yard throws and the other thrives on mid-range and deep balls. it just makes sense that the closer you are, the more on the money you're going to be.

#126 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

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PFFL with his uncle in 2007.

#127 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

Hey sorry i am late. Dalton sucks.

I don't care what obscure stats you look at, if you are attempting 31.5 passes a game and are only averaging 196.8 yards per game, against terrible defensive teams like KC, Oak, Dallas, SD, and Philly which is Dalton's last 5 games. You aren't getting the ball downfield.

Which is a shame because in the WCO that Dalton is running you should have much bigger windows to throw into downfield because most of the linebackers are having to stay up to take away those short quick passes.

It is a lot different when you run an AC offense and on passing plays everyone drops into deep coverage (which is why the screen pays usually work so well in AC offenses like CAR and SD). Not sure what all the stats are, i haven't read all of PFFL likely misleading statistical analysis. But a WCO you should always have a higher completion percentage than a AC offense and also you should be able to get easier throws downfield.

If Dalton ran an AC offense it would likely be a nightmare. But that is why he is running a WCO. It better fits his abilities. Much like I think the AC is a good fit for Newton... when we run it right.


It must be nice to make up your own rules and definitions....the rest of us have to deal with real world facts...like for example the fact our version of AC is just a glorified college spread option whereas Dan Fouts always played from under center. He was never in the shotgun. The man couldn't run. There was no 1 man advantage. No defensive player had to be committed to his rushing ability.

Our offense is based on it but we are not running the AC offense. fug we are running plays straight out of Auburn's playbook! We have a dual rush QB, and incorporate read option plays on just about every play which makes it easier to complete passes when defenses can't really tell you are about to run or pass, have to commit 1 extra defender to your QB, which often leaves unaccounted receivers wide open, and more man to man coverages for Cam to take advantage of or makes it really easy to dump the ball off. We were 5th in yards after catch last year, and our #1 receiver in yards after catch was our running back!

Our offense is no different than your typical college spread offense, which other dual rush QB's are using and again....there's a reason why guys like Russel Wilson and RG3 are completing passes at 63% and 70%...and it's not because the spread option is harder than a pro style WCO.

But I get what this is. Dalton has a higher completion % so the only explanation is that Cam's offense must be harder to complete passes, am I right? Typical Cam Newton nuthugger mentality. Let Drew Brees know that Russel Wilson's a better passer than him, will you?

#128 Gabeking

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

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PFFL with his uncle in 2007.


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#129 CatMan72

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

Records carry more value when they are accomplished while winning.

Andy and AJ got snubbed last year for what they did. They deserved more credit for being 2 rookies who pretty much took their team to the playoffs.

They are exactly the 2 guys I hoped the Panthers would have gotten. So much class in the post game interview. Very likeable guys.


LOL, someone forgot to tell Dan Marino that.

#130 CatMan72

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:38 PM

Bottom line, if you walked away from last night thinking Dalton is a better QB than Cam, something is seriously wrong with you.

#131 Verge

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:55 PM

Cam should finish with the following

24 passing tds, 12 ints, 4,000 passing yards, 10 rushing tds, 800 rushing yards

34 total tds making a total of 69 tds in two years, incredible.

#132 Jackofalltrades

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:08 PM

Cam should finish with the following

24 passing tds, 12 ints, 4,000 passing yards, 10 rushing tds, 800 rushing yards

34 total tds making a total of 69 tds in two years, incredible.


This is really what I was getting at until that dipshit highjacked my thread.

#133 PhillyB

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

so it turns out PFFL actually IS a Dick

get it?

#134 Verge

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:04 PM

This is really what I was getting at until that dipshit highjacked my thread.


Always here to help JOAT ;]

#135 Keith Moons Liver

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

Sometimes the level of discourse on the huddle is about on par with the comments section of a porn tube site.


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