511 replies to this topic

[FireMarshallBill]

That's also a loophole that should be fixed. If you have to be a certain age to buy the weapon, the same age should apply to the ammunition.

If a minor is using a credit card to illegally order ammo, then that falls on the parent or owner of the card IMO

[gospodin shuttlesworth]

If a minor is using a credit card to illegally order ammo, then that falls on the parent or owner of the card IMO

to expand on this thought process, what about when someone illegally uses a weapon owned by someone else? should that not also "fall on the parent or owner of the gun"? i think so.

[Bronn]

to expand on this thought process, what about when someone illegally uses a weapon owned by someone else? should that not also "fall on the parent or owner of the gun"? i think so.

I think it depends on the situation.

In this case, for example, it is kinda hard to hold the owner responsible. In fact, her irresponsibility lead to her death.

A crime was committed in order for the shooter to obtain the guns in the first place.

Yes, there was some obvious negligence on the mom's part. But at what point do we hold the shooter responsible?

[gospodin shuttlesworth]

I think it depends on the situation.

In this case, for example, it is kinda hard to hold the owner responsible. In fact, her irresponsibility lead to her death.

A crime was committed in order for the shooter to obtain the guns in the first place.

Yes, there was some obvious negligence on the mom's part. But at what point do we hold the shooter responsible?

yeah, her irresponsibility resulted in her death, as well as the death of 20 kindergartners

i believe someone here mentioned taking proper precautions such as gun safes or if nothing else, trigger locks. if you leave your gun out, your kid takes it, and he/she kills someone, you both should be facing prison. that threat should be more than enough to ensure that more people keep their weapons stored away.

[Bronn]

my point was, how do you hold a corpse responsible?

by punishing everyone else, apparently?

[gospodin shuttlesworth]

my point was, how do you hold a corpse responsible?

by punishing everyone else, apparently?

what in the fug are you talking about?

e: for reference, i'm one of those people who's more concerned with preventing repeat shootings

ex2: the thought process is that if irresponsible gun owners were held accountable for their lack of responsibility, maybe this shooter's mother would have kept her guns locked away

[NanuqoftheNorth]

If this mother had kept a handgun under her pillow and the rest of her weapons were stored in a gun safe, her son may have still killed her and taken the handgun, but the resulting carnage at the school would have likely be much less severe.

[gospodin shuttlesworth]

If this mother had kept a handgun under her pillow and the rest of her weapons were stored in a gun safe, her son may have still killed her and taken the handgun, but the resulting carnage at the school would have likely be much less severe.

nope see murderers are equally effective regardless of weapon. try not to die from attempting to process the doublethink required to believe that people can and will kill people efficiently regardless of weapon choice, but that we all desperately need guns to protect ourselves

[NanuqoftheNorth]

nope see murderers are equally effective regardless of weapon. try not to die from attempting to process the doublethink required to believe that people can and will kill people efficiently regardless of weapon choice, but that we all desperately need guns to protect ourselves

That is why you will rarely if ever hear anyone utter the phrase: "Hey, check out this sweet knife/spear/slingshot/rock/pepper spray/tazer/homemade bomb/hand grenade/nunchucks/stars/voo doo doll/anvil/shark filled moat/trebuchet I bought to defend my home and family. The UN/Feds/Obama will have to pry it/them from my cold dead hands!"

If firearms advocates really believed these other methods were viable alternatives they would say something like: "Suck It, UN/Feds/Obama take my firearms! See if I care! Idiots! Simpletons! There are plenty of other ways for me to rub people out if I really want to!"

If other methods of killing were equally viable Charlton Heston's words "from my cold dead hands" wouldn't make any sense. Why die defending one method, when there are a myriad of alternative methods to get the job done?

The reality, and everyone knows it, is that firearms are the most popular method simply because firearms are the easiest, quickest, most accessible way to kill someone or several someones with little-to-no skill/talent/knowledge or preparation.

Mass murders, gangsters, rum runners, generals, leathernecks, thugs, punks, ne'er-do-wells, Wile E. Coyote, ACME Inc. and police chiefs around the world agree, when you have to dispatch someone and dispatch them now, choose firearms!

There Is No Substitute!

[CCS]

I'm on neither side of the gun debate but it always humors me that the pro gun people claim that they need their guns to protect themselves. Well if that's true then why do people never whip out their piece and shoot the guy who is going on mass murder sprees? fug, I can only think of 2 self defense killings by guns in my life. For some reason the pro gun people think that if someone has a gun pointed in their face they're going to be like Clint Eastwood or some poo.

[stirs]

I'm on neither side of the gun debate but it always humors me that the pro gun people claim that they need their guns to protect themselves. Well if that's true then why do people never whip out their piece and shoot the guy who is going on mass murder sprees? fug, I can only think of 2 self defense killings by guns in my life. For some reason the pro gun people think that if someone has a gun pointed in their face they're going to be like Clint Eastwood or some poo.

Because the ones like me who have conceal carry permits obey the myriad of laws, like, no guns in a mall, or a movie theater. Ever see the signs on doors to every entrance in society that has the gun inside the circle with a mark down through it? That means guys like me will leave em in the car. We obey the law.

Now as for criminals?

[stirs]

And as far as Zod, Cantrell and the rest. Your views have not changed a bit from this tragedy. You have always wanted to take away the firearms and just see this tragedy as a "now is our opportunity" moment. Same with the dems that will be howling from DC in the next day or so. Some have already said it. "Let's use this opportunity" to do what they have wanted to do all along.

Disarming the legal, peaceful people in a society will not lead to the utopia you envision. Of course neither will Obamacare, but hey, seeing is believing.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

I'm on neither side of the gun debate but it always humors me that the pro gun people claim that they need their guns to protect themselves. Well if that's true then why do people never whip out their piece and shoot the guy who is going on mass murder sprees? fug, I can only think of 2 self defense killings by guns in my life. For some reason the pro gun people think that if someone has a gun pointed in their face they're going to be like Clint Eastwood or some poo.

While I don't doubt there are a select few that would react coolly under fire, most gun owners lack the training and real world experience to do so. It is a lot different when the targets are shooting back at you.

Those that think the latest Colorado shooter would have been stopped sooner if people in the movie theater audience had weapons are deluding themselves. There is no reason to think those returning gun fire in a dark theater would not be mistaken for threats themselves and fired upon by other armed patrons. That doesn't even begin to address panicked moviegoers caught in the cross fire or errant shots. The wild west fantasy some gun proponents have is severely misguided.

[Kurb]

And as far as Zod, Cantrell and the rest. Your views have not changed a bit from this tragedy. You have always wanted to take away the firearms and just see this tragedy as a "now is our opportunity" moment. Same with the dems that will be howling from DC in the next day or so. Some have already said it. "Let's use this opportunity" to do what they have wanted to do all along.

Disarming the legal, peaceful people in a society will not lead to the utopia you envision. Of course neither will Obamacare, but hey, seeing is believing.

OH man they are going to throw a fit over this. Uncomfortable truth...

[Panthro]

No one wants to disarm you. (Well maybe LP) Be prepared to register your guns annually, be taxed by the type of gun, and have increased insurance rates.

No one has given me a reason still to own an AR15/AK47 besides....but I wants it

PS how do you know gun control will not work? Not like you have references to back up that claim....well you could point to England