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panthers04100

Steve Smith needs 105 yards

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Again who says we are going to keep both of them or what scheme we will run. If it Chud's then it doesn't make sense to keep both of them. As for cap space when have we ever gone over the cap or not gotten who we wanted.You are just like the chicken little folks were this offseason predicting gloom and doom. Remember when we didn't have any cap space this year and weren't going to be able to sign Smitty or Stewart? Funny how that worked out with leftover cap pace we didn't use.

Guss what Einstein, the same thing will happen next year as well. Talking heads will talk about how bad things are and how we will have to cut lots of veterans, the same bitchers ad whiners will blame everything on Stewart and Williams contacts and we will have to suffer through tons of chicken little posts from guys like you. And just like every year, we will manipulate the cap and fit under it while still getting the folks we want.

Hahahahahahaha what kind of candyland, fantasy island are you living on? Hellooooo if you cut or trade these players/contracts you incur penalty and it accelerates their cap hit...

Not gotten who we wanted? What? We've ignored free agent splashes for how many seasons now? These contracts along with other players who don't produce or are on IR/coming off big injuries/ and aging,.that cripples the flexibility of what the next GM can do. We've been through cap issues before...but there are some unique and significant issues regarding this offseason and the cap that frankly haven't been present before. Doom and gloom...haha....just stating what's on the table. It's gonna be interesting...

Again with your insults...haha. You're the man...

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When did you switch from a Panthers fan to a Washington redskins fan. Or I guess you didn't know that RGIII has a hundred more yards rushing and a higher yards per carry average than Newton.

Um, I didn't....

2011 - set the NFL record for rushing yards by a rookie QB, set the record for ALL QBs with 14 rushing TDs. TD record stands.

2012.....Cam is one pace for 8 this year. Will bring his total to 22 in two years. That is still record pace which he owns and sets. In 2 years he will be ever so slightly more than half way to the TD total Steve Young took 15 years to make.

So yeah, he is rewriting the record books on the ground.....while we sign our multiple 1st round RBs to huge deals.

cam is a significantly better runner than RGIII. His runs are much more meaningful....they score TDs and convert 3rd downs. Cams's ypc is brought down bc of so many designed short yardage stuff RGIII simply doesn't see.....Cam actually has more big runs than RGIII this year. More 20+ gains.

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Um, I didn't....

2011 - set the NFL record for rushing yards by a rookie QB, set the record for ALL QBs with 14 rushing TDs. TD record stands.

2012.....Cam is one pace for 8 this year. Will bring his total to 22 in two years. That is still record pace which he owns and sets. In 2 years he will be ever so slightly more than half way to the TD total Steve Young took 15 years to make.

So yeah, he is rewriting the record books on the ground.....while we sign our multiple 1st round RBs to huge deals.

Panthers55 said its ok about the RB cap hit this season since we were under...so it's all good..

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Not skewing anything....

A moderately priced role player lead the NFL in all purpose yards. Again, they didn't invest in 2 RBs like we have.

Okay, dismiss the fact the top rushing attack the last two seasons has used a QB as part of their run game. Clearly that is a whacky fluke and not a trend. Russell Wilsom of Seattle is also on pace to rush the ball 90 times.

If you don't use Cam is part of your ground attack (designed).....he never reaches his potential nor do you use him in favor of the TREMENDOUS mismatch he is. Carolina has.....and all signs point to that continuing.......which brings me back to my point brought up last offseason. Which is you don't need 2 elite RBs with Newton on your roster. Not if you plan on tapping into all Newton has to offer. Which we are. Which makes our move to sign both RBs silly....or I should say sillier as it is silly no matter who your QB is

So lets make sure we are talking the same thing since you seem to be talking out of both sides at the same time. Are you talking feature back from a production point of view or cost. Lets agree that

at the amount of carries that WIlliams and Stewart are getting they are overpriced and not worth it. The point is not whether that is true but whether we could have used them better or built the offense around them. Depending on what scheme they decide to run and who the OC will be, there would be some major changes in the running back picture.

And again who said don't use Newton on designed runs ever? I said I wouldn't do it more than a few times a game. Do the math, if we run him on designed plays 3 times a game that comes out to 48 times a season. Then assume that we have him scramble on 5 plays out of typically 35 dropbacks a game or 80 times a season. You add those together and you get 128 rushes per season. Gee how many rushes did he have in total last year- 126. So far this year- 108 so he is pace for about the same.

So again what are you arguing about???

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Panthers55 said its ok about the RB cap hit this season since we were under...so it's all good..

Funny how you have to distort my words to try and win the argument. Fortunately most people see through your shoddy logic and grade school arguments. Unless that is truly what you got from my discusion which speaks to your concrete logic.

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You are right he was inactive not IR.

As for the 1-6 start you think that was Williams and Stewart fault? I thought the consensus was using the read option too much and a defense that played too soft at the end. Which team are you following?? Miami??

That money could've been used to upgrade a defense that gave up too many leads in the 4th

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So lets make sure we are talking the same thing since you seem to be talking out of both sides at the same time. Are you talking feature back from a production point of view or cost. Lets agree that

at the amount of carries that WIlliams and Stewart are getting they are overpriced and not worth it. The point is not whether that is true but whether we could have used them better or built the offense around them. Depending on what scheme they decide to run and who the OC will be, there would be some major changes in the running back picture.

And again who said don't use Newton on designed runs ever? I said I wouldn't do it more than a few times a game. Do the math, if we run him on designed plays 3 times a game that comes out to 48 times a season. Then assume that we have him scramble on 5 plays out of typically 35 dropbacks a game or 80 times a season. You add those together and you get 128 rushes per season. Gee how many rushes did he have in total last year- 126. So far this year- 108 so he is pace for about the same.

So again what are you arguing about???

I am saying you need NEITHER an elite paid RB nor a RB you feed the ball 20 times a game to. You just need RBs that serve roles and fit what you do....and that is more so the case when you have someone unique like Cam at QB.

And again, your entire RB argument is if used Double Trouble how you see fit....it is worth it. But we don't and aren't. You basically say, it is irreverent that in reality we drastically overpay the RB position.....bc we technically could pound them 30-40 times a game.

We need to invest in the OL....not RBs. OL serves two functions. You can find affordable RBs and have a successful run game. Whether you admit it or not....you attempt to paint the angle of not wanting Double Trouble means someone is arguing either Cam should be the primary runner or that we don't think running is important.

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Um, I didn't....

2011 - set the NFL record for rushing yards by a rookie QB, set the record for ALL QBs with 14 rushing TDs. TD record stands.

2012.....Cam is one pace for 8 this year. Will bring his total to 22 in two years. That is still record pace which he owns and sets. In 2 years he will be ever so slightly more than half way to the TD total Steve Young took 15 years to make.

So yeah, he is rewriting the record books on the ground.....while we sign our multiple 1st round RBs to huge deals.

That rookie rushing record has already been topped by RGIII with 2 games left. And rushing TDs are not really germaine to the discussion of whether we need running backs or not. SO really the only record he will have is rushing TDs and other teams prefer their running backs do the dirty work. Not sure how they has anything to do with why we shouldn't have a running game. The fact that he accounted for 15 last year and is on schedule for half that this year makes the case for a feature running back not diminish it. Unless you think he should run it more.

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Funny how you have to distort my words to try and win the argument. Fortunately most people see through your shoddy logic and grade school arguments. Unless that is truly what you got from my discusion which speaks to your concrete logic.

"First of all the contracts have not been ridiculous up to this point. Williams who makes the lion share is getting paid 4.75 million this year as a salary. With the signing bonus the hit to the cap is roughly 8 million. Stewart as a salary is making $875,000 with a signing bonus of 1.9 million or a total of 2.75 million."

Go add up all the #s and you'll finally see the point everyone is tryin to make. Here we have a combined cap hit of over 10 million. Yet our QB leads the team in rushing. You're saying "if we had used them more"....well we didn't. Therefore the contracts aren't justified. GM and staff weren't on same page. The season ended up a waste. Because of philosophy disconnect

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That rookie rushing record has already been topped by RGIII with 2 games left. And rushing TDs are not really germaine to the discussion of whether we need running backs or not. SO really the only record he will have is rushing TDs and other teams prefer their running backs do the dirty work. Not sure how they has anything to do with why we shouldn't have a running game. The fact that he accounted for 15 last year and is on schedule for half that this year makes the case for a feature running back not diminish it. Unless you think he should run it more.

Again, that doesn't mean Cam wasn't rewriting the record book while we were over investing in RBs. 2011 actually happened. RGIII didn't wipe the reality of 2011 away.....and RGIII isn't even close to the TD record. Nor has he proven to be as efficient as Newton was (you know, moving the chains and converting 3rd downs). Not an official stat but Cam also converted more 3rd downs than any RB last year as well.

An again, no one here has even hinted we shouldn't have a run game. LMFAO.

The days of Emmitt Smith are dying. You don't need a featured RB. 3-4 guys can make up a ground attack. You don't need one primary runner you showcase. The logic of using 3-4 runners to make up your ground attack is also thrown out the window when you pay them like we did.

Nighty night.

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I am saying you need NEITHER an elite paid RB nor a RB you feed the ball 20 times a game to. You just need RBs that serve roles and fit what you do....and that is more so the case when you have someone unique like Cam at QB.

And again, your entire RB argument is if used Double Trouble how you see fit....it is worth it. But we don't and aren't. You basically say, it is irreverent that in reality we drastically overpay the RB position.....bc we technically could pound them 30-40 times a game.

An I would say you are totally wrong. We do need a running back we can feed the ball 20 times a game just like we fed the ball the ball to Williams 22 times last Sunday.

BTW lets clear up a misconception here. Did you know that New England is 8th in rushing yards this year? Did you know that they have run the ball 457 times for an average of 32 times a game. Did you know that Stevan Ridley has 252 carries for 1172 yards and 10 TDs. So to say we don't need a ground game because Bradley doesn't have one is wrong once again.

Go ahead and make the same tired argument you always make which is that RIdley isn't expensive since he is on his rookie contract and we could have gotten someone cheaper.. We already agree that there are many productive running backs that are cheap. And if they are willing to part with Ridley when his contract is up and not pay him a premium in 2015 they can get by cheaper by signing another rookie.

And no my argument is not that if we run them more that they are worth it. I said that since we did sign them that we should we should be running them a lot to get more value out of them. It is true I don't have the big issue with them that you do but I have never said I would have paid them that much. I said if you remember that Williams was paid to reward him for not getting paid for 5 years before that, to signal to the team and Stewart that we would pay our players, and we paid a premium because Richardson gutted the team in 2010 and frankly no one wanted to play for us after a 2-14 season. It was the same reason we paid so much for Johnson. And if we didn't have so many holes on the team we could have drafted a RB high. Funny how when you put things in context it is so much clearer.

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Again, that doesn't mean Cam wasn't rewriting the record book while we were over investing in RBs. 2011 actually happened. RGIII didn't wipe the reality of 2011 away.....and RGIII isn't even close to the TD record. Nor has he proven to be as efficient as Newton was (you know, moving the chains and converting 3rd downs). Not an official stat but Cam also converted more 3rd downs than any RB last year as well.

An again, no one here has even hinted we shouldn't have a run game. LMFAO.

The days of Emmitt Smith are dying. You don't need a featured RB. 3-4 guys can make up a ground attack. You don't need one primary runner you showcase. The logic of using 3-4 runners to make up your ground attack is also thrown out the window when you pay them like we did.

Nighty night.

You talk in circles so much it is lucky you don't get vertigo. RGIII has 140 yards on 4 more carries. He also has 43 - 20 + yard scrambles out of total of 112. He is converting roughly 40% of his rushes to first downs. He is averaging 6.8 yards a carry. He has 6 TDs.

Compare that with Newton's 50- 20+ yard scrambles out of a total of 108. He is converting roughly 36% of his rushing attempts into first downs. He is averaging 6 yards a carry. He has 7 TDs.

So if you look at it they are about even.

And who says that Washington doesn't have a feature back. They have Alfred Morris who has 280 carries and 1322 yards- 9 Tds. No the running game isn't dying. In fact Peterson is likely to break the record for most rushing yards by a back ever which has stood for 4 decades.

Stop believing all the hype and do your own homework.

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"First of all the contracts have not been ridiculous up to this point. Williams who makes the lion share is getting paid 4.75 million this year as a salary. With the signing bonus the hit to the cap is roughly 8 million. Stewart as a salary is making $875,000 with a signing bonus of 1.9 million or a total of 2.75 million."

Go add up all the #s and you'll finally see the point everyone is tryin to make. Here we have a combined cap hit of over 10 million. Yet our QB leads the team in rushing. You're saying "if we had used them more"....well we didn't. Therefore the contracts aren't justified. GM and staff weren't on same page. The season ended up a waste. Because of philosophy disconnect

This was the quote from my post on page 3 above yours.

Hurney was fired for reasons, one of which I suspect was giving big bucks to Williams and Stewart and not having the OC on the same page. Either Williams or Stewart would be fine to keep, but without a big running game not both.

This is your quote further down the page.

I had no issue signing 2 talented players if we were going to run an offense that utilized them/justified the amount of $ given to them. Clear disconnect between the GM and what staff attempted to do with this offense.

We said the same thing or you copied me, take your pick. In either case I was the one who told you that no one could justify the cost of the RBs based on what they did. I do think that if we had featured Williams and Stewart and they had combined for 2000 yards total it wouldn't have been so bad. Instead they have combined for 1156 yards and 8 TDs. Clearly not enough.

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Amazing....even after how poorly the staff used him early on in the season. Playing loyalty/favoritism towards Beason

your post bothers me.

I can't think of any coach who would start a rookie lb at the mike lb spot over a all pro mlb.

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Here is a p55 conversation.....

CRA - teams are moving away from the Emmitt Smith ways where they pay big bucks to a single RB to carry it 30 times a game. Too easy to find cheap productive options and the the NFL has altered rules to make passing near irresistible.

P55 - I see. So you don't think we should even have a RB on the roster and should pass every down.

I mean, you twist everything and give someone a stance they never have taken.

It is a flawed stat but the gap is HUGE. Why don't you do some deep thoughts and look at the QBR for RGIII and Newton. Look at running aspect of it.....why do you suppose the gap is so huge if Newton and RGIIII are comparable runners. Cam's runs are better. More impact

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