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Offensive Minds to Bring In


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#1 beach

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:08 AM

So there's a clear % of people here that don't want Chud back and expect Rivera to be fired.

Well I want to know then what offensive minds you want to bring in?

From what coaching tree? What type of style to implement? etc.

#2 Mr. Scot

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:10 AM

I prefer a Coryell style offense. Not a big fan of WCO or college style systems.

#3 carolina-chuck

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:14 AM

I prefer a Coryell style offense. Not a big fan of WCO or college style systems.


isnt air coryell and the west coast pretty much the same thing.

#4 Kuech Da Sneak

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:23 AM

isnt air coryell and the west coast pretty much the same thing.


Not really since most people are referring to the Bill Walsh WCO when they say WCO these days.

Technically, AC was originally called a WCO, but nobody really considers it as such anymore.

#5 #1 Panthers Fan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:15 AM

Its AMAZING how last year Chud and Rivera were " Gods" in the eyes of sooo many fans and this year everyone is calling for their heads.

#6 bLACKpANTHER

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

Its AMAZING how last year Chud and Rivera were " Gods" in the eyes of sooo many fans and this year everyone is calling for their heads.



#7 Rubi

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

Its AMAZING how last year Chud and Rivera were " Gods" in the eyes of sooo many fans and this year everyone is calling for their heads.


That's what happens when you change the entire scheme to a college read option...epic fail

#8 Peppers90 NC

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

i hate to change what we have here because I know the potential and changing systems sometimes causes a setback. i think cam is in the right system now, just gameday playcalling has been suspect much of the year.

#9 ThunderKatt

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:31 PM

I prefer a Coryell style offense. Not a big fan of WCO or college style systems.


Well when Chud came to this system, he was bringing an air coryell hybrid offense. For the most part last year, I would say that we were running an effective hybrid coryell offense that lead to the team having the most explosive o in the league. This year they tried but the line wasn't holding it's end of the bargain which lead Cam to run for it a lot more than he wanted too. After the hybrid failed the team had to result to shorter routes which has been successful in the past few games.

If the line is stronger next year, I think we can go back to the hybrid but there will need to be more plays opened up to the offense out of that 900+ page play book. Also, Cam will need more audibles to dictate the defense.

#10 beach

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:35 PM

i hate to change what we have here because I know the potential and changing systems sometimes causes a setback. i think cam is in the right system now, just gameday playcalling has been suspect much of the year.


See this is what I'm getting at. Is the issue this season more on the playbook and scheme or is it game day play calling? I can obviously understand the one side where the read option was basically our base package but was it that really?...or was it Chud being wayy too cute and has learned as the year has progressed?

If its scheme related, I'm all for bringing in a new staff. If it is more play calling related, maybe let Rivera try to lure Norv in and then our new GM can give them a mandate for next year, a winning season. period. Let Rivera make proper coordinator tweaks and give them a do or die year.

I think that is the most rewarding scenario with the smallest risk which is the type of thing I think Richardson may look to imo. I mean, I honestly think Norv could do really well with our offense. We've basically had his bipolar doppleganger at OC.

#11 jarhead

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

Is our offense improving because Cam is playing better or is Cam playing better because the coach is coaching differently? Or is it some of each?

#12 magnus

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

See this is what I'm getting at. Is the issue this season more on the playbook and scheme or is it game day play calling? I can obviously understand the one side where the read option was basically our base package but was it that really?...or was it Chud being wayy too cute and has learned as the year has progressed?

If its scheme related, I'm all for bringing in a new staff. If it is more play calling related, maybe let Rivera try to lure Norv in and then our new GM can give them a mandate for next year, a winning season. period. Let Rivera make proper coordinator tweaks and give them a do or die year.

I think that is the most rewarding scenario with the smallest risk which is the type of thing I think Richardson may look to imo. I mean, I honestly think Norv could do really well with our offense. We've basically had his bipolar doppleganger at OC.

the scheme here is great. That part is great.
The playcalling, I think, gets too cute. It gets too pass-oriented.

And if Cam is having a struggle here and there, he's passing 60% of the time, and then 3 out of every 4 runs are some sort of trick or an option, he's still having to carry the team 90% of the time on his decisions. That's changed lately - the shorter passes don't put the pressure on Cam to hit a home run (so he's not holding the ball, waiting for Smith) and a little less than half option runs give Cam fewer reads.

Not that he can't read the field, but he's young. And it's OK to not make him be the decider on every play. It's OK to take a little pressure off.

As for the shorter passes, I don't think that's changed other than the coaching points. The playcalls are still the same, just as last year. They're just having him get it out faster.



Definitely agree with Mr. Scot. Coryell all the way.

But, under a new staff, that does limit things. There aren't any good HC prospects from the system - Jay Gruden (maybe, they attribute him to WCO but even John wasn't very WCO by Tampa), or Mark Roman (49ers). Norv is there, but he's not going to be a head coach and it's implausible that a new head coach would specifically go after him.

#13 Mr. Scot

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

the scheme here is great. That part is great.
The playcalling, I think, gets too cute. It gets too pass-oriented.

And if Cam is having a struggle here and there, he's passing 60% of the time, and then 3 out of every 4 runs are some sort of trick or an option, he's still having to carry the team 90% of the time on his decisions. That's changed lately - the shorter passes don't put the pressure on Cam to hit a home run (so he's not holding the ball, waiting for Smith) and a little less than half option runs give Cam fewer reads.

Not that he can't read the field, but he's young. And it's OK to not make him be the decider on every play. It's OK to take a little pressure off.

As for the shorter passes, I don't think that's changed other than the coaching points. The playcalls are still the same, just as last year. They're just having him get it out faster.



Definitely agree with Mr. Scot. Coryell all the way.

But, under a new staff, that does limit things. There aren't any good HC prospects from the system - Jay Gruden (maybe, they attribute him to WCO but even John wasn't very WCO by Tampa), or Mark Roman (49ers). Norv is there, but he's not going to be a head coach and it's implausible that a new head coach would specifically go after him.


And here I thought you were a WCO guy. Maybe it's just that you like it better than I do :lol:

Martz is still available, isn't he?

(I'm kidding on that)

#14 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

Is our offense improving because Cam is playing better or is Cam playing better because the coach is coaching differently? Or is it some of each?


I'd say directly it's about 25% the former and 75% the latter. Indirectly it's been 100% playcalling and coaching. There's been an obvious change in playcalling, much less of those crappy read option plays that take 10 seconds to develop and give the defense a chance to tackle both Cam and whoever he might hand it off to. And I think the difference in Cam's play has been a result of him being able to get in a rhythm easier. I don't think "some lightbulb went on" that made him just start playing better. He's playing better because the playcalling is allowing him to.

#15 magnus

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:08 PM

I always did love the WCO. Funny enough, the 99 team did more or less what this team does very well - get a lot of yards on 1st down and build off that. But, I grew to prefer the reasoning behind the Coryell stuff over the last few years (including seeing Harbaugh in '09,10). I like the deep ball and Coryell stuff tends to run more (and definitely disguises a lot).

Martz, and Cam Cameron. I think Cameron got the scapegoat end of the Ravens deal, though I more or less knew that Caldwell was crap anyway. Hue Jackson might be gettable if, say, Zimmer does go but Jay Gruden doesn't. I like Hue a lot.

hope you're doing well.


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