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#46 Marguide

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:02 AM

Can someone explain the possibilities of trade vs release for the guys most likely to be rid of this offseason? In terms of cap room, trade value, etc.

Thanks.


In nearly every case, traded players are handled just like released players from a cap standpoint. An exception would be if you were able to trade a player to which you still owed guaranteed money in the future and the new team was willing to pick up that obligation. That almost never happens though.

It usually just comes down to the player's value. Consider also that the other teams around the league know who is in danger of being cut, so rather than trade and give up something, they will often just wait for the player to be released and take their chances they can sign them. When trades do occur with players likely to be released, the new team is only gaining exclusive rights to the player and keeping them off the open market, so they usually don't want to give up much in return. Case in point is Asante Samuel. He's a good player, but all Philly got was a 7th round pick from Atlanta.

Guys like Gamble, Gross, DWill and some others are potentially tradeable, but we'll get a lot less for them than we'd like. It really only is worth it if we plan to cut them anyway.

#47 Seal (SmittyIsOurSavior)

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:27 AM

In nearly every case, traded players are handled just like released players from a cap standpoint. An exception would be if you were able to trade a player to which you still owed guaranteed money in the future and the new team was willing to pick up that obligation. That almost never happens though.

It usually just comes down to the player's value. Consider also that the other teams around the league know who is in danger of being cut, so rather than trade and give up something, they will often just wait for the player to be released and take their chances they can sign them. When trades do occur with players likely to be released, the new team is only gaining exclusive rights to the player and keeping them off the open market, so they usually don't want to give up much in return. Case in point is Asante Samuel. He's a good player, but all Philly got was a 7th round pick from Atlanta.

Guys like Gamble, Gross, DWill and some others are potentially tradeable, but we'll get a lot less for them than we'd like. It really only is worth it if we plan to cut them anyway.


Gotcha gotcha, thanks for that. Add that to the fact that they're almost all on the older side, save Beason and Stewart, we're not looking at much trade capability.

So, by theory, it would be smarter to keep D-Lo and trade J-Stew, assuming that their similar production over the years meant that neither is much better than the other?

#48 Marguide

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:07 AM

So, by theory, it would be smarter to keep D-Lo and trade J-Stew, assuming that their similar production over the years meant that neither is much better than the other?


The problem is, Stew still has $11 million dollars in guarantees that he has yet to receive, plus another $7 million dollars yet to hit our cap from his signing bonus. So we just flat can't cut him or we'd go from being $16 million over the cap to being $34 million over the cap.

Moving DWill on the other hand, frees up $5 million in cap space this year if we do it after June 1st, either through trade or a cut. That is going to be tempting to Gettleman.

Should we find someone willing to take on Stew's guaranteed money, then yeah, you could make a case for trading him even though he is much younger. It just seems unlikely to me that we'll find a trading partner. Bottom line, I expect DWill to be gone and Stew to be here. Not saying I like it, just it seems the more likely.

#49 Seal (SmittyIsOurSavior)

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:15 AM

The problem is, Stew still has $11 million dollars in guarantees that he has yet to receive, plus another $7 million dollars yet to hit our cap from his signing bonus. So we just flat can't cut him or we'd go from being $16 million over the cap to being $34 million over the cap.

Moving DWill on the other hand, frees up $5 million in cap space this year if we do it after June 1st, either through trade or a cut. That is going to be tempting to Gettleman.

Should we find someone willing to take on Stew's guaranteed money, then yeah, you could make a case for trading him even though he is much younger. It just seems unlikely to me that we'll find a trading partner. Bottom line, I expect DWill to be gone and Stew to be here. Not saying I like it, just it seems the more likely.


Ahh, right. Stew's deal is still relatively new, so there's still the guaranteed to be factored in. Man, that's unfortunate. Otherwise, he'd probably be able to draw some pretty decent trade value.

#50 Udogg

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:16 AM

Left Tackles don't grow on trees. So unless we have a viable backup option, you don't trade Gross.

#51 Marguide

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:21 AM

Left Tackles don't grow on trees. So unless we have a viable backup option, you don't trade Gross.


You might, if you think you can replace him with our 1st pick in April.

The problem is, we are going to have to do something (re-negotiate, trade, cut) Gross before the league year starts in March, long before the draft. It's a sticky situation.

#52 Udogg

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:32 AM

You might, if you think you can replace him with our 1st pick in April.

The problem is, we are going to have to do something (re-negotiate, trade, cut) Gross before the league year starts in March, long before the draft. It's a sticky situation.


If we had a top 5 pick and could be assured to draft a LT who could start right away sure. But other than that, you don't touch your blindside tackle unless you don't like your QB and are going to be drafting another next year imo. Restructure the deal? Sure if possible. Cut? Completely out of the question.

#53 Panther17

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:22 AM

Don't think Jimmy Clausen is going anywhere. Derek Anderson's contract is up. Cutting Jimmy doesn't save much compared to keeping him instead of resigning Anderson.

#54 rayzor

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:27 AM

Don't think Jimmy Clausen is going anywhere. Derek Anderson's contract is up. Cutting Jimmy doesn't save much compared to keeping him instead of resigning Anderson.

except there is zero benefit to keeping clausen.

he doesn't fit what we do.

not sure he even fits in the NFL.

if we don't retain anderson (which we should) then we pick up a coryell style QB or a big armed read option/mobile QB.

#55 Panther17

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

except there is zero benefit to keeping clausen.

he doesn't fit what we do.

not sure he even fits in the NFL.

if we don't retain anderson (which we should) then we pick up a coryell style QB or a big armed read option/mobile QB.


I'm not saying I want Jimmy being our back up. It would scare the hell out of me. Just with how tight we are going to be with the cap and tough releases at other positions, I can see one scary season with Cam and Jimmy as our only QBs, unless we draft one in late rounds.

#56 panthers55

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

If I were an overpaid vet I would welcome being cut. With all the guaranteed money they will get, they can sit around and do nothing and still be a multimillionaire. If they want they can go to another team and get paid from both like Jake did. No guys like Williams aren't crapping themselves, just waiting for the golden parachute.

#57 panthers55

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:33 AM

Speaking of quarterbacks, was Gettleman the guy who decided to pick up David Carr as their backup when we cut him. Yeah well if he did, it raises questions..............................

#58 rayzor

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

Speaking of quarterbacks, was Gettleman the guy who decided to pick up David Carr as their backup when we cut him. Yeah well if he did, it raises questions..............................

they wanted to get an inexpensive veteran backup QB in a very thin market at that time and missed out on their first two (at least) options before settling on carr. their QB coach was Carr's OC for his first 4 years in the league so that might have played a part in it as well.

that said...it's not like they were trying to get a starting QB or get a QB to fill in for an injury prone QB. it was just a guy they could plug in in case of emergency not a big deal and definitely not something to discredit gettleman or even question his abilities.

#59 rayzor

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:57 AM

going back to teh jimmy, i saw that he has a year four escalator written into his contract worth 2.85 mil. anyone know what triggers it?

#60 Panther17

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:58 AM

going back to teh jimmy, i saw that he has a year four escalator written into his contract worth 2.85 mil. anyone know what triggers it?


hopefully playing time or stat related.


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