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Fan01

Talent, Math, and Luck

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My biggest fear is Rivera is going to be here longer than a year due to Cam coming of age next year and propelling us into the playoffs where Ron's risk aversion will result in a heartbreaking OT loss to some underdog who's comeback is fueled by our poor clock management and desire to sit on a small lead.

Wait, you're already scared that we could possibly maybe lose a playoff game? LOL, delhommey, if this team gets to the playoffs I'm not even sure i would watch the game. I would just smile ambivalently at the fact we made it and the haters can kiss Cam's chocolate salty balls.

but no, seriously I would watch...

just kiddin around with ya though, i get your point.

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it's a cultural thing.

loyalty to players or commitment to winning.

belichick has a commitment to winning that we haven't had. the commitment to this organization has been to it's players and that has held this team back more than anything. belichick is pragmatic. the objective is always to make his team better. panthers just like to do what they can to keep players around, even if there are cheaper and just as or more effective alternatives out there.

we have a culture that isn't based on excellence, it's based on complacency...and that's not by luck. it's by being dedicated on an organizational level to not being the best...just ok. belichick and other organizations that are perennial winners have a dedication to being excellent and that seeps through every crack within the organization all the way through the coaches and the players. and players know that if they aren't being a significant part of what's happening, and that doesn't mean just effort, but performance, then they will be looking for work elsewhere. they know that regardless of how long you've been there, how much you're making, who you are or even how hard you try if the production isn't there then they won't be there much longer.

that just isn't the way this team has worked. they've prided themselves on not being excellent, but being loyal to their players. that in itself is a recipe for complacency, mediocrity, and ultimately failure.

Ehhhh, I don't think Richardson doesn't want to win as an owner. He just doesn't know how to do it.

From all evidence he's too hands on, likes exec's that follow his lead, and hires head coaches that are too defensive minded and risk averse.

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I have no qualms with any of the above. Our arguments have been more about Harbaugh being an elite coach than over Rivera. I'm non-committal to Rivera because I want to see that his late-season aggressiveness continues. If he falls back on not using the game's best short yardage back in situations that demand it I'll be right there with you yelling for his head.

But the laments of how we're going to waste another year as if there's no possibility that Rivera can improve at all just gets on my nerves, as I'm sure you can tell. And the ferocity of attacks on JR and the organization as a whole that has cropped up on the Huddle has really got me raging; even Zod indulges in this idiotic behavior. I think watching the playoffs has people in a pissy mood because we're not participating, but there are some absolutely bright, bright rays of light on the Panthers future, and the reason we' obsess over the doom and gloom is because we imagine having Cam solves all the other issues the 2010 disaster left us with. But at some point we're going to be a very, very good team again, and unless most of the advanced data and scouting and word of mouth in the football community I've come across is wrong it won't be long at all. A lot of very savvy football people thought we were still a year away this season, and now. . .we're not.

you see...there you go calling it idiotic behavior.

who are you to judge? who are you to tell people that they shouldn't be acting like that or having no or very little faith in what has been happening here? who are you to tell people that their belief that this team still hasn't learned how to win isn't justified? that all we have right now is all we've ever really had except for a few years...hopes and promises that next year will be better and that just isn't good enough anymore.

all that matters to the growing number of disgruntled fans is winning and this team hasn't shown in it's history, esp. in the past few years, that it knows how to get it done. a last minute hurrah just isn't going to cut it anymore, regardless of how impressive it is.

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Ehhhh, I don't think Richardson doesn't want to win as an owner. He just doesn't know how to do it.

From all evidence he's too hands on, likes exec's that follow his lead, and hires head coaches that are too defensive minded and risk averse.

100% agreed. i have no qualms whatsover about JR the man.

i just don't think he knows what he's doing, which is why he hired accorsi. i just wish he had given the GM the choice of coaches and hope that gettleman is given the freedom to replace rivera if rivera fails to deliver the playoffs. i hope he allows gettleman to get the players in here that will make the team better. i hope he's allowed to find the right coach. i hope that he doesn't put limits on decisions based on personal biases. i'm just not confident that will be the case, though.

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just what lengths will people go to in order to validate losing on this board

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I agree with the main point that getting Brady was an extreme stroke of fortune for the Patriots and I can surmise from this that indeed it does take some luck to be top tier but the funny thing is you can't count on luck and need to learn to succeed with only a little of it.

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There has been a lot of discussion on the boards about creating a "winning" culture in Carolina. About not missing on draft choices and getting quality players. I found a very good article by Dan Le Batard of the Miami Herald and it highlights what I've thought for a long time about winning in the NLF.

You need a certain amount of pure luck and Tom Brady (or other random Superstar QB)

Here's the link to the article.

http://www.miamihera...triots-and.html

The Panthers will get this winning culture but it will come from winning, not the other way around. And we'll start winning because we have the real secret sauce to winning and that's Cammy Cam Juice.

The real difference between Tom and Cam was no one knew what they were going to get out a QB who was chosen by the media to go off the draftboard high in the first round and ended up near the bottom of the draftboard. Tom Brady still has an ax to grind. Cam has something to prove. Tom Brady was given a chance to grow and fail by the media. Cam, not so much. The Pariots have a certain mindset when it comes to winning. One is still wondering what he Panthers team mindset is when it comes to winning. Tom is playing in a much easier division. Cam isn't.

Yep, there are a whole lot of facors that goes into making that perfect team. Some of it is luck and most of it is patience and maturity.

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I agree with the main point that getting Brady was an extreme stroke of fortune for the Patriots and I can surmise from this that indeed it does take some luck to be top tier but the funny thing is you can't count on luck and need to learn to succeed with only a little of it.

Imagine Tony Pike looking like a future Hall of Famer and leading the Panthers to a Super Bowl win in his 2nd season. My head asplode.

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I've posted this before a couple years back. Do you know what team had the worst start as a franshise going 24 years without a playoff win and only 2 playoff appearances during that span?

Answer the Pittsburgh Steelers. They were the originals Raiders. They sucked and for a long time. What changed? Nothing really. It just all finally came together. There isn't an issue until the owner/team stops trying to win. But as long as he is trying to win its just trail and error.

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just because you get paid to analyze football (and don't make the mistake of saying you're the only one who does) doesn't mean you know more than anyone in here or that you are more of an expert than anyone.

based on what i've seen in the big picture, i just have no faith in his ability to do anything than make an effort at the end of the season to try and save his job. you don't agree with it? get over it.

That first paragraph makes me wonder why I'm even bothering to respond but you post a lot and seem to sum up the attitude about the Panthers and Rivera that I find so disagreeable.

So, I'm asking what is this big picture you've seen and why do you have no faith in his ability. Please don't give me quasi ethereal answers like, he's a bad game manager and can't lead. If that's you opinion then give me specifics on why you feel that way. Give me example to support your argument.

I'm not blind to the mistakes the Panthers and Rivera have made but it's the whole black and white, he's sucks, we're doomed, we're one of the worst teams in the NFL with little hope to fix anything due to a losing culture and bad meddling owner.

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