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Continuity not Capability


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#136 rayzor

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

Well, we have to accept it if we want to remain fans of the team I suppose, but that doesn't mean we have to be okay with it or agree with it.

It is called a differing opinion. This is a message board in which we debate and discuss differing opinions. Why should everyone be expected to just line up behind every decision made by the organization?

we shouldn't, and P55 sure didn't when jerry tanked the 2010 season.

#137 GoCarolina8990

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

I don't know how anyone can say the Shula promotion was bad, for the life of me. For all we know Cam and Jackson might have not even got a long, Rivera is gone regardless if wins don't come why even add speculation to why you were bad if were bad next year again. Now there is no excuse for the offense to not know what they are doing, essentially.

#138 FootballMaestro

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:50 PM

Obviously the job security issue was a factor. Do you go with a new coach in a new job where you have a few years or do you go to Carolina where you are expected to deliver immediately. Plus you have to be willing to run a similar system to what we already have, have to hit the ground running in a small market and pass up jobs in some of the biggest cities like NY or Philly, or Chicago,etc. Lots of factors.

Bottom line is that Shula was the best candidate by Gettleman's and Rivera's assessment. Why can't folks just be okay with that??


Why do people keep saying this?

Joseph Person reported that both Hue Jackson and Shurmur wanted the Job.

Obviously Norv Turner, was locked up by Chud already, and is going to Cleveland to be with his son, and because the opportunity was offered to him first before Rivera did. So that's different. And the team didn't pursue Ken Whisenhunt.

Now Remember, there was a report that Bill Cowher was interested in the Carolina job... Jason Laconfora, reported (and said on the air on WFNZ) that Gruden would have came out of retirement for the Panther job....Hot Shot, NY Giants Front Office Whiz Banger, Marc Ross was reported to be DEFINITELY interested in the Panthers GM job he was denied. And after missing out on the Panther spot, Ross cancelled his interview regarding the open Jets GM position in--NY. And many observers believe, Chip Kelly went back to college cause the Carolina job wasn't available and was going through the motions, before Phila went begging back and sweetened the deal.

So let's stop acting like Carolina with Cam and Crew is some crappy job. Every coach knows (and the NY Times reported this with much hyperbole several weeks ago), that the Panthers job, is one of the best in the NFL for a new, competent coach to show immediate, legitimate improvement with. And an OC doesn't even have to win (even in one year). He just has to produce a good offense to get a HC gig. That's why Chud is in Cleveland now as Exhibit A!

#139 rayzor

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:53 PM

I don't know how anyone can say the Shula promotion was bad, for the life of me. For all we know Cam and Jackson might have not even got a long, Rivera is gone regardless if wins don't come why even add speculation to why you were bad if were bad next year again. Now there is no excuse for the offense to not know what they are doing, essentially.

if we win, we win...but if we fail we still win because then he'll be gone? not sure if that's what your line of thinking is. i kind of got lost after the valid point that cam and jackson might not have gotten along.

but i'm not a fan of thinking that losing is a good thing at any point, and i know that there's probably some that think i want rivera to fail, but that's just not the case. having miniscule faith in rivera to be a successful HC and questioning his decision making skills isn't wanting him to fail. he's here, i want him to succeed.

i don't see next year having another losing year and then rivera getting fired as a bonus. i would see it as proof of yet another failure of this organization and it would piss me off more.

#140 Sloth

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

Why should everyone be expected to just line up behind every decision made by the organization?


Well, when your organization is known far and wide for it's foresight and good decision making, I truly feel they should be given the benefit of the doubt in situations like these.

pfffahaha

#141 Doc Holiday

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

So the question I have will 9 wins and no playoffs save his job.

if its me answering that question it would be no, I say playoffs or bust

#142 panthers55

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

Well, we have to accept it if we want to remain fans of the team I suppose, but that doesn't mean we have to be okay with it or agree with it.

It is called a differing opinion. This is a message board in which we debate and discuss differing opinions. Why should everyone be expected to just line up behind every decision made by the organization?


Being okay with it doesn't mean like or agree with it. It is more like the serenity prayer- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference. This falls into the category of accepting the things I can't change instead of bitching about it for months and subjecting all of us to tirades that may or may not be close to the truth come the Fall.

#143 GoCarolina8990

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

i don't see next year having another losing year and then rivera getting fired as a bonus. i would see it as proof of yet another failure of this organization and it would piss me off more.


If we lose I'm going to be as disappointed as any other losing season. I have faith in everyone on the team right now, the coaching staff, Cam, everyone. I had high expectations this season...we all did. Stakes are even higher next year. Because of the continuity. We want to see the team that got hot at the end of last season, game 1 of next year and there should NOT be ANY reason we cant see that.

If we cant get it done this year everyone is going to be pissed...like always after a poo year.

#144 panthers55

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:20 PM

Why do people keep saying this?

Joseph Person reported that both Hue Jackson and Shurmur wanted the Job.

Obviously Norv Turner, was locked up by Chud already, and is going to Cleveland to be with his son, and because the opportunity was offered to him first before Rivera did. So that's different. And the team didn't pursue Ken Whisenhunt.

Now Remember, there was a report that Bill Cowher was interested in the Carolina job... Jason Laconfora, reported (and said on the air on WFNZ) that Gruden would have came out of retirement for the Panther job....Hot Shot, NY Giants Front Office Whiz Banger, Marc Ross was reported to be DEFINITELY interested in the Panthers GM job he was denied. And after missing out on the Panther spot, Ross cancelled his interview regarding the open Jets GM position in--NY. And many observers believe, Chip Kelly went back to college cause the Carolina job wasn't available and was going through the motions, before Phila went begging back and sweetened the deal.

So let's stop acting like Carolina with Cam and Crew is some crappy job. Every coach knows (and the NY Times reported this with much hyperbole several weeks ago), that the Panthers job, is one of the best in the NFL for a new, competent coach to show immediate, legitimate improvement with. And an OC doesn't even have to win (even in one year). He just has to produce a good offense to get a HC gig. That's why Chud is in Cleveland now as Exhibit A!


While I generally agree that Carolina is a good franchise and that Charlotte is a good place to live, I don't know if this OC job, this time, was that desirable given the need to win right away. Most guys when they take over a job have some time to get things right, in Carolina that isn't the case.

Gettleman on the other hand was given longer than a 1 year window to produce so I think you have to separate the GM job from the OC job instead of lumping it all together like you did. For the GM job it was desirable. For OC not as much.

As for Kelly, you made that up. He said he went back to ponder the decision and say good bye on his own terms. Sure Philly sweetened the pot but I never heard anyone say he went back because the Panthers job was gone. After all it was never available so why would he say he was leaving in the first place.

#145 iamhubby1

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

Being okay with it doesn't mean like or agree with it. It is more like the serenity prayer- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference. This falls into the category of accepting the things I can't change instead of bitching about it for months and subjecting all of us to tirades that may or may not be close to the truth come the Fall.


It is the wonder of the interwebz. The disgruntled have a forum for thier displeasure. You cannot dissway them, their frustration level is too high.

I love their claims, we will fail because we always fail. This is the logic of the disgruntled. The grass is always browner for us and that will never change. Laughable to most fans, but when feelings are the gist of your argument, the argument is always skewed.

The past is the anchor for the disgruntled. The future holds no hope for these folks. "Until we win" is the rallying cry of the hopelessly gruntled.

#146 panthers55

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:26 PM

we shouldn't, and P55 sure didn't when jerry tanked the 2010 season.


I spoke my mind and told folks what I thought. But I didn't stop rooting or even go on and on for months bitching and complaining. When asked I would again reiterate my point of view and when folks were talking about how great a move it was for us to get rid of everyone, I disagree and told people why. But unlike many here who make every thread into a complaint and start a number of similar threads bitching about the same thing, I said what I thought and moved on.

Lets also remember I was right. If Shula sucks next fall I am sure you will have a bunch to say and that is when it is appropriate. Not for the next 6 months when there is no evidence to prove or disprove it.

#147 csx

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:37 PM

People love to be miserable and bitch and complain about things even when there is no potential for bitching and complaining to change anything. They will always find something to whine about, always. I don't know if sports create these behaviors or attract those who already have them.

#148 rayzor

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

It is the wonder of the interwebz. The disgruntled have a forum for thier displeasure. You cannot dissway them, their frustration level is too high.

I love their claims, we will fail because we always fail. This is the logic of the disgruntled. The grass is always browner for us and that will never change. Laughable to most fans, but when feelings are the gist of your argument, the argument is always skewed.

The past is the anchor for the disgruntled. The future holds no hope for these folks. "Until we win" is the rallying cry of the hopelessly gruntled.

lol....talking about feelings being the gist of your argument. you're running on "faith" while ignoring the fact that this team has 4 winning seasons ever.

ignoring the fact that this team has never had back to back winning seasons.

ignoring that it's been 5 years since a winning season.

they've done nothing but prove that they know how to lose.

can they win consistently? yep...but they don't. they find a way to lose, at least until they've got no shot at the playoffs.

what's easier to have confidence in, this team having a winning season next year or not having a winning season?

what's easier to believe? that this team will hit the playoffs or miss the playoffs?

if you believe this team will have a winning season or that they will make the playoffs, i ask why? is your answer based on any real evidence? or is it just a feeling? because the evidence is pointing to a team that doesn't know how to win consistently.

get off your midget horse and quit acting like you're a better fan than other fans who are basing their lack of faith in the team off results when you're sitting there basing your feelings on nothing more than hope without any real evidence to back it up.

#149 FootballMaestro

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

While I generally agree that Carolina is a good franchise and that Charlotte is a good place to live, I don't know if this OC job, this time, was that desirable given the need to win right away. Most guys when they take over a job have some time to get things right, in Carolina that isn't the case.

Gettleman on the other hand was given longer than a 1 year window to produce so I think you have to separate the GM job from the OC job instead of lumping it all together like you did. For the GM job it was desirable. For OC not as much.

As for Kelly, you made that up. He said he went back to ponder the decision and say good bye on his own terms. Sure Philly sweetened the pot but I never heard anyone say he went back because the Panthers job was gone. After all it was never available so why would he say he was leaving in the first place.


You don't need more than one good year as a OC, especially if you've been successful at it before.

Any decent OC is going to do well with this Carolina team. That's not a big risk.

And as I said, Shurmur, Jackson and Ross clearly wanted the job. And other journalist reported that Cowher and Gruden were interested in the job as well. And Remember, the NY Times Football blog (Fifth Down, with Analytics Specialist, Chase Stuart), called it 'the best coaching opportunity in 20 yrs'. Take that for what it's worth. But they said it (and other high level Football blogs said things similar, speculating about which big name coaches would step out of retirement to coach or GM the Panther job). So get your head out of the mud.

The point is: Carolina is a very attractive job, contrary to what many long time, downtrodden fans want to believe. And "Market" doesn't really matter in football. And Charlotte, is as nice a place to live as anywhere. That's not an issue. This isn't the NBA or even baseball. Different financial dynamics. I think the biggest problem with Carolina, is it's ownership, management and vision. Hopefully, Gettleman takes care of the player management and team vision aspect?

I clearly labeled Chip Kelly as speculation from "observers", which is what the chatter comprised of.

But go ahead, ignore everything else I said and what I documented/referenced.

It is, what it is.

#150 rayzor

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:04 PM

I spoke my mind and told folks what I thought. But I didn't stop rooting or even go on and on for months bitching and complaining. When asked I would again reiterate my point of view and when folks were talking about how great a move it was for us to get rid of everyone, I disagree and told people why. But unlike many here who make every thread into a complaint and start a number of similar threads bitching about the same thing, I said what I thought and moved on.

Lets also remember I was right. If Shula sucks next fall I am sure you will have a bunch to say and that is when it is appropriate. Not for the next 6 months when there is no evidence to prove or disprove it.

have i gone on for months? have i stopped rooting for my team?

i don't bring up the discussion. i don't start threads about it.

if the discussion comes up about things that are going on this offseason and the topic of coaches shows up, are those who don't like what's happening supposed to just remain quiet? if the team does something that some don't agree with or like, are they supposed to just go along with it because they don't "know" how things are going to shake out?

it doesn't matter if there's nothing that can be done about it. it doesn't matter if it's going to take months and months to see the results. if you see what you believe to be a train wreck, why not talk about it? why not at least vent and get it out of your system? why not discuss it with other fans and see if they see or can say something that can get you feeling better about it?

i've disagreed with what has been happening and telling people why. i've been noticing things that just reaffirm the doubts i have about this franchise. i'm tired of losing. i'm tired of excuses and trying to rationalize things going on that lead to non-winning seasons. i don't believe that rivera can get this team to the top. i don't believe that shula is the right man for the job. i am essentially where i was when i wanted fox gone and i'm not happy about that either. i have no confidence in what this team is doing right now. i'm trying, but i keep seeing things that make me shake my head.

the thing that pisses me off almost as much as where i see this team heading and where it could head with the right direction, is those fans that bitch about bitching acting like they are more mature and rational fans. i hate just as much unhappy fans bitching about the blind homers. no one is asking to have judgement passed on them. no one deserves it. no one is qualified to do it.

people have a different view of the team and that's alright. everyone is entitled to their opinion about it without having to have some self-righteous fan shaking their head at them and telling them how to to be a proper fan.


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