174 replies to this topic

[Catfight84]

Fug it dude let's go bowling

[KendrickPanther]

Admittedly I have not read the entire thread. So maybe this question has been asked.

But logic rears its ugly head to beg the question:

If promoting Shula instead of hiring from outside will give the Panthers the best chance to win the most games next year (which is what you are implying), why wouldn't that be true beyond next year?

OR

If next year the Panthers end with a winning season and Coach Rivera keeps his job, what are you saying would change that would make him change his OC?

Your statements have only one basis in reality, that head coaches will always hire the coordinators and coaches that they feel will help the team win. Something you are attributing only to Coach Rivera?

If you know the history of Mike Shula then you know he was able to make the playoffs several times with an all time great defense and an anemic offense in Tampa. Tony Dungy was the head coach and was able to manage games with strong defense while Shula did just enough (sometimes just a few field goals) to win. Then they would get into the playoffs and get shut down by a quality opponent year after year. He lost the 1999 Conference Championship game 12-6. That was the score, not their record that year. In 1997 they lost to Green Bay 11-7. This was Mike Shula with one of the greatest defenses ever constructed. Jeff Davidson circa 2008 would have taken these guys to the Super Bowl.

The point is Rivera is a defensive guy and he believes he can build a top tier defense and get enough from the offense to win. All defensive coaches believe they can win with defense. This is a fatal flaw in a league that favors the offense in virtually every situation. The league is designed for high powered offense. Winning with defense and conservative offense is like fighting the blitzkrieg with trench warfare. Punting on 4th and 1 with a minute left in a 1 point game is like playing Russian roulette with revolver with 2 empty chambers.

[CRA]

If you know the history of Mike Shula then you know he was able to make the playoffs several times with an all time great defense and an anemic offense in Tampa. Tony Dungy was the head coach and was able to manage games with strong defense while Shula did just enough (sometimes just a few field goals) to win. Then they would get into the playoffs and get shut down by a quality opponent year after year. He lost the 1999 Conference Championship game 12-6. That was the score, not their record that year. In 1997 they lost to Green Bay 11-7. This was Mike Shula with one of the greatest defenses ever constructed. Jeff Davidson circa 2008 would have taken these guys to the Super Bowl.

The point is Rivera is a defensive guy and he believes he can build a top tier defense and get enough from the offense to win. All defensive coaches believe they can win with defense. This is a fatal flaw in a league that favors the offense in virtually every situation. The league is designed for high powered offense. Winning with defense and conservative offense is like fighting the blitzkrieg with trench warfare. Punting on 4th and 1 with a minute left in a 1 point game is like playing Russian roulette with revolver with 2 empty chambers.

Exactly what would a good OC of done in Tampa with his best weapon on offense being a FB? I still don't get the knock on him doing a decent job playing the type football wanted with a poo roster

[rodeo]

Exactly what would a good OC of done

In all 17,500 of your posts I don't think you've ever used the proper form of have/of.

I hope you of a good day though.

[Fox007]

Should have just trained a monkey to throw darts at a board and use whatever play it lands on.

Probably get better results.

[rayzor]

The point is Rivera is a defensive guy and he believes he can build a top tier defense and get enough from the offense to win. All defensive coaches believe they can win with defense. This is a fatal flaw in a league that favors the offense in virtually every situation. The league is designed for high powered offense. Winning with defense and conservative offense is like fighting the blitzkrieg with trench warfare. Punting on 4th and 1 with a minute left in a 1 point game is like playing Russian roulette with revolver with 2 empty chambers.

totally agreed. well said.

[jarhead]

All I know is that Rivera picked the guy that. would accept the position given he had one year to produce or perish coupled with Rivera likes people he has worked with and has familiarity with.Was Shula the ideal pick? Maybe not,,,but that's not to say it cannot work.With change comes risk....I am most concerned with the offensive game calling during games and less concerned with the scheme and playbook.

[Zod]

In all 17,500 of your posts I don't think you've ever used the proper form of have/of.

I hope you of a good day though.

Lol

He has never seen a game called by Shula, but he knows best,

[FootballMaestro]

The point is Rivera is a defensive guy and he believes he can build a top tier defense and get enough from the offense to win. All defensive coaches believe they can win with defense. This is a fatal flaw in a league that favors the offense in virtually every situation. The league is designed for high powered offense. Winning with defense and conservative offense is like fighting the blitzkrieg with trench warfare. Punting on 4th and 1 with a minute left in a 1 point game is like playing Russian roulette with revolver with 2 empty chambers.

I agree wholeheartedly. And please don't let me get into a diatribe, about the amount of times Rivera (through out the year), trusted his defense, effectively keeping the Panther offense off the field (via the oppositions TOP via trust in his 'bend but don't break' defense), as well as making decisions--not believing in his offense (and subsequently his defense), which kept the oppositions offense on the field, and effectively winning them games for Panthers losses.

No matter what the defense does, the offense is the strength of this team. And the moment you believe in this defense (until shown otherwise) they will disappoint you.

As I said in another thread: Indy had the 29th rated defense. But guess what? When they made those 7th 4th quarter comebacks, their defense held, for Indy to win and Luck to get the credit for them. When the Panthers had 4th Qtr leads (many times with precious little time on the clock), the Panthers higher rated defense, folded like a cheap suit.

And if Rivera continues to trust and believe in his defense first (instead of scoring as many points as you can, until it's 2min left in the game, and you have the ball and a first down), then he'll never learn his lesson and be a winning, mind you good coach.

Until we see differently, we all know Ron can't coach (especially offensively) with pressure or when the games count/are on the line. Because of this, I don't understand why Rivera, shouldn't try to score as many points as possible. This way, the games don't have to be close, where Rivera has to rely one or two tough decisions.

SMH

[Fox007]

Lol

He has never seen a game called by Shula, but he knows best,

Unfortunately he will get to experience that....

We'll see just how much continuity they have after Shula runs this offense into the ground. I have a feeling their buddy buddy days will be short lived.(talking about Cam and Shula)

If Cam wanted a suggestion box before with the 5th and 12th ranked offense....oh boy can't wait.

[panthers55]

Can we all agree that Shula could not run an offense in the 90s especially when his head coach wanted a ground and pound and the rules didn't really favor passing as much as it does these days.

But the jury is still out on what he has learned in the past decade, what has been different since he was last an OC and what Rivera wants to run in Carolina in 2013. Somehow I think that Rivera talked about the past and how things need to be right now. I also think that Shula was involved in putting together this system and working with Cam to make sure he is comfortable in this offense. We assume everything is Chud's idea and that is not likely the case. I would bet you that Shula had a lot to say in this offense and can run it as well as Chud, maybe better. Chud himself said that Shula was heavily involved and would be fine.
People who keep harkening back to the 90s to evaluate Shula don't still use cassette and VHS tapes in their electronics. They have changed with the times. Why do they think Shula hasn't changed either?

[Zod]

For the last time it doesn't matter what offense he runs.

The problem is he has always been severely outcoached in the NFL and college.

Does being a QB coach make you a better play caller? Not so sure.

[rayzor]

For the last time it doesn't matter what offense he runs.

The problem is he has always been severely outcoached in the NFL and college.

Does being a QB coach make you a better play caller? Not so sure.

but he and cam are bffs!!!!!!

[GRWatcher]

If you know the history of Mike Shula then you know he was able to make the playoffs several times with an all time great defense and an anemic offense in Tampa. Tony Dungy was the head coach and was able to manage games with strong defense while Shula did just enough (sometimes just a few field goals) to win. Then they would get into the playoffs and get shut down by a quality opponent year after year. He lost the 1999 Conference Championship game 12-6. That was the score, not their record that year. In 1997 they lost to Green Bay 11-7. This was Mike Shula with one of the greatest defenses ever constructed. Jeff Davidson circa 2008 would have taken these guys to the Super Bowl.

The point is Rivera is a defensive guy and he believes he can build a top tier defense and get enough from the offense to win. All defensive coaches believe they can win with defense. This is a fatal flaw in a league that favors the offense in virtually every situation. The league is designed for high powered offense. Winning with defense and conservative offense is like fighting the blitzkrieg with trench warfare. Punting on 4th and 1 with a minute left in a 1 point game is like playing Russian roulette with revolver with 2 empty chambers.

You still did not answer my questions nor did anyone agreeing with your post.

I'm not saying Shula is gonna' be the greatest OC the NFL has ever seen. I have my doubts. But I do not doubt that Coach Rivera offered the job to who he thought would be the best OC for the Panthers.

So you can stop talking, "Shula this" and "Shula that". There's plenty of threads with those discussions. Whether or not you agree with the hire is not my point.

[redbuddha]

The only thing holding Mike Shula at Alabama is that he was able to get good recruiting classes. Something every coach at Alabama has been able to do based on history of winning since Bear Bryant.

However, I bet if you ask Mike Shula why he failed at Alabama he would say that he lost The Golden Calf of Bristol in a recruiting battle with the University of Florida. Having seen The Golden Calf of Bristol in Pro-style offenses in the pros, can you imagine how much success he would have had at Alabama with The Golden Calf of Bristol running a pro style offense?

Oh and he tried to Unname the Sylvester Croom Trophy at Bama, after he became a competing coach at Miss State.

Those are my Mike Shula memories.