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Panthers coaching staff: Total years of Sunday coaching experience


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#25 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

In 2012, We won 7 games. Three games were in the bag and slipped away due to poor decision-making (Atlanta in Atlanta, Chicago, and Tampa Bay in Charlotte). All 3 of these games were lost by exploiting weaknesses Marty Hurney created. This team could have VERY EASILY been 10-6. If we finished 10-6, we would have been talking about how we BLEW games vs. Tampa Bay in Florida, Dallas, and Seattle--and Kansas City. In other words, this team was flirting with a 10 to13-win season. This team that was 2-8 at one point.


I agree with what you said about Hurney, but we as a board need to stop saying the above. EVERY team in the league who won or lost a close game can say what you've said. Teams we beat this season by a close score can say that if they did this, or that, differently, they could've beat us. Could we have beaten the Falcons? Sure! Could the Saints have beaten us? YEP. This whole argument is a wash.

#26 MHS831

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

I don't know about you, but the Bengals organization is not one we should be copying in my opinion. Over the last 40+ years, they have a winning % of .442.

Sure, they've had a few good years here and there, but the organization is widely viewed as one of the worst run in the NFL by just about every outside observer. Is being like the Bengals good enough?


I agree, but I also think the Bengals' problems are in the ownership/front office, which trickles down to only having 9 coaches. Honestly, that is unbelievable. However, if they can experience success with 9 while a team with 23 coaches goes 6-10, how crucial are the coaches? There are many more factors that determine success.... that was my point.

I would never suggest that we follow their lead as an organization.

#27 SCP

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

So the premise of this thread is that the more coaches you have, the better you do and more years you have been in the league regardless of what you have done or your previous record, the better game decisions you make...........

Waits for huddlers with nothing else to do to do an analysis and see if this has legs...................


The premise of the thread is that we have a bunch of noobs at the helm and failed to add anybody to assist Rivera with decisions on Sunday.

#28 Floppin

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

Bingo. The point of this thread was to look at game day decisions. We have not addressed the bettering of game day decision making. We will likely see poo like the Bears and Falcons game happen again.


It's important not to overlook the value that Skipper will provide in this regard. He was Fox's assistant Head Coach and will provide invaluable game management experience to the staff and for Rivera.

#29 Floppin

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

The premise of the thread is that we have a bunch of noobs at the helm and failed to add anybody to assist Rivera with decisions on Sunday.


See above.

#30 SCP

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

If you want the positive spin on all this, here goes:
This is what amazes me:

  • Marty Hurney spends millions re-signing the "core" from a 2-14 team (2010). While doing so, he ignores needs at some positions and loads the garage at others.
  • Marty misses on several high draft picks over the past 5 years: Otah, E. Brown, Clausen, Armanti, McClain, Fua, S. Martin, etc. while explaining that we are "building through the draft"
  • Marty ignores key positions and we are forced to play low-end players at them (CB, DT, WR, RG)
  • Because Marty overpays for everyone else, we go bargain basement at FS with a special teamer from Baltimore named NAKAMURA. Marty overpays for him.
  • Because Marty has not drafted a CB in the first or second (or brought in a good free agent) at CB since 2006 (if you count Richard Marshall), we start JOSH NORMAN, a 4.6 40 guy from Coastal Carolina who talks trash as he gets burned regularly.
  • Because we have not drafted a WR above the third round (exculding USC busts Colbert and Jarrett) ever, our #1 WR is 33-year old, 5-9 slot converted to Flanker.

In 2012, We won 7 games. Three games were in the bag and slipped away due to poor decision-making (Atlanta in Atlanta, Chicago, and Tampa Bay in Charlotte). All 3 of these games were lost by exploiting weaknesses Marty Hurney created. This team could have VERY EASILY been 10-6. If we finished 10-6, we would have been talking about how we BLEW games vs. Tampa Bay in Florida, Dallas, and Seattle--and Kansas City. In other words, this team was flirting with a 10 to13-win season. This team that was 2-8 at one point.

The issue was personnel as much as anything. We all wanted to blame Rivera for the loss in Chicago. The reason he played soft? Norman, his starting CB, was too slow to play press coverage. He cannot recover, which would give up the deep ball. They were in a spread formation, which meant help was not available. Rivera had no Gamble to put on Marshall. Cutler had been off, so he hoped the Bears would make a mistake.

I guess what I am saying is this: The problem was the players on the field. Rivera had to make decisions with what he had. It is like a NASCAR driver using salvage parts and the fans expecting a win. Sure Rivera could have been better, but did you see the game Billechick called? He is considered the best coach since Lombardi. He simply has better players. Without Brady, Billechick is on his fourth or fifth job right now.

If we have another draft like we did last year (hats off to marty) and a few players finish maturing and the light comes on (Silatolu, Fua, Adams, Gettis) I see this team being much improved. Rivera is now scared and hungry.

MORE GOOD NEWS: We were winning with players like Kearse (NT), Dockery (CB), Thomas (CB), Byers ©, Austin (RG), and Campbell (S). Did we find some gems? I think we did in all cases.

If Gettlemen addresses needs on the OL, DT, WR, and CB to start with, this team will be dangerous in 2013. Do not underestimate the way they played for RR after the being eliminated during Halloween week.

This is not to say that Rivera did not make mistakes, it is to say, however, that Hurney's ineptitude handcuffed Rivera in a lot of ways. OK, haters, have at me. Tell me about the impending doom of the franchise and how this team sucks because Rivera is an idiot. I just wanted you to look beneath the surface. As a former high school coach, I know that there is a difference between what you need to do and what you can do, based on players.


All good points. If you don't have the Jimmy's and the Joe's it really doesn't matter about the X's and O's.

#31 MHS831

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

I agree with what you said about Hurney, but we as a board need to stop saying the above. EVERY team in the league who won or lost a close game can say what you've said. Teams we beat this season by a close score can say that if they did this, or that, differently, they could've beat us. Could we have beaten the Falcons? Sure! Could the Saints have beaten us? YEP. This whole argument is a wash.

I thought about that when I was posting this. However, these games were not just close games that we lost, these were games that we gave away. Not whining about the losses to Dallas, Seattle, even Kansas City.

The losses I point out were a direct result of Hurney's incompetence that was allowed to infect the team for the past 4 years. My point was not to make excuses, it simply shows the disconnect between the fans' understanding of how Marty screwed this team and Ron's decision-making. We had RBs who were paid about $17,000 per yard gained and we are having to patch holes at positions Marty neglected for years with special teamers, low draft picks, and cuts from other teams. These were the areas other teams exploited to win. These are the areas that limited Rivera's decisions. He was handcuffed. And before you say that all teams have these issues, few have $80 million invested in 9 players from a team that went 2-14 and 6-10 over the previous two seasons. That is why Marty was fired and RIvera was not. So to criticize Ron's decisions without considering the fact that he had crap on the field is unfair. The games I selected simply illustrated this. These games were won if Rivera had options to run the clock out or jam WRs. He did not because the right side of our OL sucks, our left guard was a confused rookie, and our center was out. Because Mary does not beleive CB is a priority, we have Norman on Brandon Marshall with the game on hte line. What were his options vs. a 5 WR set? Jam 6-5 Marshall who runs a 4.4 with a 5'11" rookie CB who runs a 4.6 and could never recover vs. the deep ball? He really had few options, but fans ripped him. If we had any player at all over there, the game is over. If we could run the ball, the game is over. Marty was fired because of this, so comparing this to the norm is not a valid argument.

#32 SCP

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

See above.


Yes, Skipper is the one guy that I'd have faith in. But would Skipper have allowed Rivera to go in at halftime of the first ATL with ball in hand and two timeouts in his back pocket? Will Skipper say, "hey dumbass lets use the timeouts and see if we can get in FG range"?

#33 Floppin

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

Yes, Skipper is the one guy that I'd have faith in. But would Skipper have allowed Rivera to go in at halftime of the first ATL with ball in hand and two timeouts in his back pocket? Will Skipper say, "hey dumbass lets use the timeouts and see if we can get in FG range"?


I feel that this is one of the reasons that Rivera reached out and brought Skipper back. Sure, part of it is to coach the RB's but I think the larger reason is game day experience. He was let go by Rivera and replaced. I feel that if Rivera truly wanted another RB coach he could have gotten any up and comer, instead he specifically reached out for the former assistant HC from the previous staff, and one with a good relationship with the player personnel.

The most likely reason he was let go to begin with was specifically because of his ties to Fox and the potential division that it could have caused in the locker room to keep him around, this would no longer be the case in year three.

#34 MHS831

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

All good points. If you don't have the Jimmy's and the Joe's it really doesn't matter about the X's and O's.


THanks--We just have too much invested in some positions while other were ignored. Gettlemen should fix this.
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#35 Carl Spackler

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

All good points. If you don't have the Jimmy's and the Joe's it really doesn't matter about the X's and O's.


Coincidentally, we have a Jimmy and a Joe and they've both underachieved.

#36 FastNFurious

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:53 PM

Don't worry... we have really pretty uniforms. Nobody will notice our lack of competent coaching