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The Other Side of the Health Care Crisis


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#16 teeray

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:14 AM

I don't understand why so many people call what many people want in terms of coverage as "free healthcare" or making it free for everyone.

There is a difference between universal insurance coverage and universal access to healthcare and "free for everyone" healthcare.

#17 twylyght

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:33 AM

Because... with the way emergency rooms are treated, you can't be turned out regardless of ability to pay. Hence... free.

#18 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:33 AM

The phrase "free health care" should be removed from discussions. There is no such thing. European nations are able to provide health care because they have some of the highest tax rates in the world Well, that and they have finally been able to avoid war over the past 60 plus years. They are also able to take advantage of the US market, in that the US conducts most of the research into new medicines, so they don't have to spend as much on research and developement. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of all new medicines originate in the US. But free health care does not exist in Europe. They just balance the cost across most of the population.

Should the US ever move to a completely european style of medical care, this will allow wider access to health care, but will likely have some negative impacts as well, especially irt research and developement.

#19 thatlookseasy

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:46 AM

The phrase "free health care" should be removed from discussions. There is no such thing. European nations are able to provide health care because they have some of the highest tax rates in the world Well, that and they have finally been able to avoid war over the past 60 plus years. They are also able to take advantage of the US market, in that the US conducts most of the research into new medicines, so they don't have to spend as much on research and developement. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of all new medicines originate in the US. But free health care does not exist in Europe. They just balance the cost across most of the population.

Should the US ever move to a completely european style of medical care, this will allow wider access to health care, but will likely have some negative impacts as well, especially irt research and developement.


A move to euro style health care would only hurt innovation in the pharmaceutical industry if we change the laws regarding patent protection and limit the price of prescription drugs. The only reason these drug companies can afford to invest so heavily in R&D (and all those annoying drug ads on TV) is because we have laws set up to make these companies incredibly profitable.

Of course, considering so much of our health care money is covered by the government, we are essentially subsidizing all this research. So we have basically proven that investing lots of money can deliver scientific innovations

#20 twylyght

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:43 PM

A move to euro style health care would only hurt innovation in the pharmaceutical industry if we change the laws regarding patent protection and limit the price of prescription drugs. The only reason these drug companies can afford to invest so heavily in R&D (and all those annoying drug ads on TV) is because we have laws set up to make these companies incredibly profitable.

Of course, considering so much of our health care money is covered by the government, we are essentially subsidizing all this research. So we have basically proven that investing lots of money can deliver scientific innovations


Just be sure that your guys are in political power to ensure what research is deemed worthy

#21 logic1977

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

've often thought about this very same situation. The issue with healthcare is that it really isn't amarket based business.

When your sick and you need treatment, you basically go to either your local emergency room or clinic, or to whoever your primary care doctor is and you pay whatever they decide to charge you.

It isn't like shopping fo a car where you have time to research who has the lowest cost solution.

Most health insurance plans actually make this problem worse. Think about it, if you get $10,000 worth of treatment, but only have a $25 copay, what do you care how much it costs?


I think the way to fix it is through normal free markets, but how do you make that apply to healthcare? As much as i hated being put on one, I think high deductable insurance plans help create that effect, but you'd have to have everyone on such a plan, and it would totally screw over people who couldn't afford the deductables.

#22 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:00 PM

Health care should be priced like power, since both entities are essentially monopolies serving a geographically fixed customer base and require a lot of specialized infrastructure to operate. For some reason Obamacare and the private insurance companies are the devil but government controlled utilities are dandy.

Utility commissions set rates based on everyones one sided arguments and enforced by government. It's a good business because the commission generally understands the modest profit growth charter of a utility and controls rates as a buffer to the public. Company gripes about tightwad regulators. public gripes that the politicians gave Duke half the money they asked for, everyone is almost happy and rates are controlled.

#23 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:51 PM

Health care should be priced like power, since both entities are essentially monopolies serving a geographically fixed customer base and require a lot of specialized infrastructure to operate. For some reason Obamacare and the private insurance companies are the devil but government controlled utilities are dandy.

Utility commissions set rates based on everyones one sided arguments and enforced by government. It's a good business because the commission generally understands the modest profit growth charter of a utility and controls rates as a buffer to the public. Company gripes about tightwad regulators. public gripes that the politicians gave Duke half the money they asked for, everyone is almost happy and rates are controlled.


Its not talked about as much on here because its been in place for so long that its not worth talking about, but Duke Power is still the devil to a lot of people, democrat or republican.

#24 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

Yeah, some of the lowest cost power in the nation but they need to trim your trees occasionally to keep it on for people.

#25 Niner National

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:25 AM

Its not talked about as much on here because its been in place for so long that its not worth talking about, but Duke Power is still the devil to a lot of people, democrat or republican.

After living in Maryland I was very happy to return to Duke when I moved back.

In Maryland if a bird pissed on the powerline the power would go out for hours.

There were a few thunderstorms that caused the power to go out for 2 days where I lived. Some areas less than a mile from me didn't have power for 5 days.

I was also paying as much as .17/kWh compared to the .099/kWh I paid here when I moved back. For people with 3-4 bedroom homes, $3-400 power bills were normal. With a 1 bedroom apartment I had a few months with $200+ power bills.

I like Duke just fine. Ultimately I think buying progress will turn out to be a mistake though. Progress did a poor job keeping their facilities up to date, so Duke is probably going to have to spend billions bringing those up to current standards or replacing them entirely. Everyone will pay for that.

#26 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:52 AM

After living in Maryland I was very happy to return to Duke when I moved back.

In Maryland if a bird pissed on the powerline the power would go out for hours.

There were a few thunderstorms that caused the power to go out for 2 days where I lived. Some areas less than a mile from me didn't have power for 5 days.

I was also paying as much as .17/kWh compared to the .099/kWh I paid here when I moved back. For people with 3-4 bedroom homes, $3-400 power bills were normal. With a 1 bedroom apartment I had a few months with $200+ power bills.

I like Duke just fine. Ultimately I think buying progress will turn out to be a mistake though. Progress did a poor job keeping their facilities up to date, so Duke is probably going to have to spend billions bringing those up to current standards or replacing them entirely. Everyone will pay for that.


Duke energy is able to take advantage of North Carolina's abundance of hydro power opportunities. NC is one of the top 10 hydro power producing states in the country. I doubt that many others states will be adding much hydo power, since we have to take into account the enviromental impact of Dam's. NC also has the advantage of milder winters and weather, so power outages tend to occur less frequently, unless a hurricane hits.

But as far as criticisms of Duke, they get a lot of criticism as being one of those "evil" corporate entities, although we don't hear as much about it. To much spent on lobbying, not enough taxes paid, paying a departing CEO to much while at the same time cutting off power for those out of work and unable to pay, etc...


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