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Surrogate offered $10,000 to abort baby


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#16 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:33 PM

but haven't you made the decision already? allowing medicine to keep her alive IS the decision. they wouldn't have had to abort for this child to have died... that would've been done to lessen the pain both physical and psychological of all parties... The decision HAS to be made for them, just like many of us have or will face the decision of pulling the plug on our parents/significant others, and just like someone will have to decide for us. It isn't fair to cast judgement on those who've made what is probably the hardest decision of their lives and then defer your own answer.


In this case, yes I agree. Had she not had those operations after she was born, she would not have lived. But it's still not that clear cut. We are capable of saving her life and keeping her alive. Some would say that her existence isn't worth it, some would say it is... what would she say? Do we know? What is "worth it" for me and you, isn't the same for someone else.

It still also doesn't answer the other question... say a kid is going to be born with a defect that is correctable via medical technology and without it they'll die, but with it they'll live a normal life... are they worth it?

What if they'll live an "almost" normal life? Are they worth it? Tough questions with no good answers imo.


I also think that there is a very distinct difference between a child that has yet to live a life and an adult that you may have to decide to "pull the plug" on.

That adult has A ) had a chance to live and B ) more than likely now, had a chance to choose if they want to be saved or not.

#17 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:43 PM

I have a friend whose granddaughter was born with all kinds of medical conditions. She was not expected to live beyond a few months. As a matter of fact, she was almost lost to miscarriage a couple of times, but modern medicine intervened and she was born, premature and with loads of deformities and afflictions. By all accounts, she should never have been born, and many encouraged her mother to let nature take its course or to have an abortion, given the "kind of life" her child was "destined" to have. The child has had a trach throughout her life, she is nearly deaf, and she suffers a number of other difficulties.

She miraculously has lived more than 11 years now, and has an extremely full and happy life - she's quick-witted and funny, intelligent and caring, and extremely understanding (though sad) that many children (and adults) find her "handicaps" too difficult to look at or deal with. Mature beyond her years, and she's been a joy to her family and most who meet her.

When Make-A-Wish offered her a wish, she couldn't have what she wanted -- to swim. Her trach prevents that. So, they sent her to Disneyworld,and said she could take her best friend with her. Because of her difficulties, and children being children, she doesn't have a "best friend," ... except for her grandmother, my friend. So, she took Grammy and they had a blast. Sweet Gracie only realized that her condition is "terminal" when she asked what Make-A-Wish was all about.

Now, she has a condition where her lungs fill with fluid and she has painful growths, etc., so she has to undergo surgical procedures quite often and she's in almost constant pain. Who knows how much longer she has ... she wasn't supposed to be born at all, she wasn't supposed to live long after she was born, and certainly not live years ... not 11 years .... but she has had a "good" life by her own standards, and I doubt she would have chosen death or no life over the life she has had, albeit brief and painful.

I know it's just anecdotal, but it's an example of how we can't assume anything, how miracles can happen, and how life is not something to be taken lightly when deciding to deprive it or end it.

#18 mmmbeans

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:52 PM

In this case, yes I agree. Had she not had those operations after she was born, she would not have lived. But it's still not that clear cut. We are capable of saving her life and keeping her alive. Some would say that her existence isn't worth it, some would say it is... what would she say? Do we know? What is "worth it" for me and you, isn't the same for someone else.

It still also doesn't answer the other question... say a kid is going to be born with a defect that is correctable via medical technology and without it they'll die, but with it they'll live a normal life... are they worth it?

What if they'll live an "almost" normal life? Are they worth it? Tough questions with no good answers imo.


I also think that there is a very distinct difference between a child that has yet to live a life and an adult that you may have to decide to "pull the plug" on.

That adult has A ) had a chance to live and B ) more than likely now, had a chance to choose if they want to be saved or not.


there may be distinct differences for you, idealistically... but that life is the only one that person has... regardless of age... I think some of us may be more satisfied with their lives than others but i don't think anyone is eager to take that long walk... doesn't matter who it is, they're losing everything they were or will be. I think a lot of this hinges on a personal belief about what death IS as well...

We both acknowledge that this isn't a black and white issue, this is a lose-lose situation for everyone involved (except the surrogate who got paid to take the moral high-ground with no consequences whatsoever.) i don't know what the right answer is in this situation... I can't imagine having to make that decision.

#19 mmmbeans

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:57 PM

I have a friend whose granddaughter was born with all kinds of medical conditions. She was not expected to live beyond a few months. As a matter of fact, she was almost lost to miscarriage a couple of times, but modern medicine intervened and she was born, premature and with loads of deformities and afflictions. By all accounts, she should never have been born, and many encouraged her mother to let nature take its course or to have an abortion, given the "kind of life" her child was "destined" to have. The child has had a trach throughout her life, she is nearly deaf, and she suffers a number of other difficulties.

She miraculously has lived more than 11 years now, and has an extremely full and happy life - she's quick-witted and funny, intelligent and caring, and extremely understanding (though sad) that many children (and adults) find her "handicaps" too difficult to look at or deal with. Mature beyond her years, and she's been a joy to her family and most who meet her.

When Make-A-Wish offered her a wish, she couldn't have what she wanted -- to swim. Her trach prevents that. So, they sent her to Disneyworld,and said she could take her best friend with her. Because of her difficulties, and children being children, she doesn't have a "best friend," ... except for her grandmother, my friend. So, she took Grammy and they had a blast. Sweet Gracie only realized that her condition is "terminal" when she asked what Make-A-Wish was all about.

Now, she has a condition where her lungs fill with fluid and she has painful growths, etc., so she has to undergo surgical procedures quite often and she's in almost constant pain. Who knows how much longer she has ... she wasn't supposed to be born at all, she wasn't supposed to live long after she was born, and certainly not live years ... not 11 years .... but she has had a "good" life by her own standards, and I doubt she would have chosen death or no life over the life she has had, albeit brief and painful.

I know it's just anecdotal, but it's an example of how we can't assume anything, how miracles can happen, and how life is not something to be taken lightly when deciding to deprive it or end it.


kid sounds like a f*cking trooper. that's really wonderful and heartbreaking at once... made me tear up.

#20 cookinwithgas

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:26 PM

This was a great story, but I am puzzled that there is not more conservative outrage at this woman breaking her legally binding contract in favor of touchy feely emotions. Legally binding contracts, as we all know, are the cornerstone of capitalism.

#21 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:32 PM

This was a great story, but I am puzzled that there is not more conservative outrage at this woman breaking her legally binding contract in favor of touchy feely emotions. Legally binding contracts, as we all know, are the cornerstone of capitalism.


ah yes

see also: the fight conservatives brought to the doorstep of those who would dare interfere with the market through "right to work" legislation

#22 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

kid sounds like a f*cking trooper. that's really wonderful and heartbreaking at once... made me tear up.


She absolutely is a trooper. Whenever I complain about my old-age aches and pains, I try to remember all that Gracie is going through and will go through during her very young/short life.

#23 Proudiddy

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:11 PM

Delhommey is Illuminati.


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