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Sen. Elizabeth Warren Makes Case for $22-an-hour Minimum Wage.


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#16 Niner National

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:27 PM

Does it?

You are paid for what you are worth (usually).

Walmart guy is making walmart money for a reason (again usually).
Welder guy is making his rate for a reason.
Banker guy is making his wage for a reason (this is one of the more corrupt examples).



In my perfect world system, the cream would rise to the top. A highly skilled worker would be in demand, thus companies would compete for his work and he would make a higher wage, gaining himself capital and perhaps giving him the chance to start his one.

Making the minimum wage would hurt more than help IMO.

I would much rather invest in programs to bring people up in employment, across the board, than pay unskilled workers the same thing a Nurse with a 2 year degree starts off making at New Hanover Hospital. Should full time janitor with no education or cultured skill set make the same as a educated nurse ?

The thing is though...the amount of profit that a Walmart worker brings is actually very high. When I worked at Sears in college, my contribution per hour (profit, not revenue) was several times higher than my actual salary. These numbers were readily accessible and included on your commission report each week. I was paid commission and earned about twice what an average Walmart worker makes in a store that did a fraction of the business a Walmart would.

Employees at Sears and HHGregg can actually make a livable salary because they're paid commission on what they sell, but at Walmart, Target, Best Buy, and countless other retail stores people cannot make a livable wage even though their contribution to store profits is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy higher than what they are paid.

The retail environment used to pay many people a livable wage, but the rise of mega-stores destroyed many of these jobs and replaced them with minimum wage or slightly above minimum wage jobs.

#17 stirs

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:28 PM

Layoffs will happen if they jerk up the minimum wage. Unless of course, we quit trading with countries in Asia

#18 Kurb

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:28 PM

Regardless, as I've explained in my own situation, there are far too many cases where there are college-educated "culturally skilled" and even specifically skilled laborers who are being vastly underemployed and/or underpaid. The system needs an enema.


I agree, but I don't think a huge min wage increase fixes it.

Crackdowns on people underpaying folks would be a great start and would start to level the playing field.

#19 Proudiddy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:31 PM

That's easy to say when you aren't running the cooperation.


You make hammers.
Every hammer costs 5 dollars to make while the wage is 10$ per hour. 3 of those 5 dollars are wage costs. You sell the hammer for 10$ making 5

Government doubles min wage to 20$ per hour. Now your cost of hammers is 8$ and you are only making 2$ per hammer. You have lost over half of your profit.

Do you shrug your shoulders and say, welp thats tough on me, I will just deal.

Or do you sell your hammer for 13$ and keep making that 5$ per?





I would contract with the Government and sell the hammers for 100$ each, but I'm a dick like that.

I'd expect there to be some rise in cost of living and operations, but in regards to having to pay laborers more, I wouldn't shed a tear in many cases because so many companies are banking in excess. Yes, that would be tough on your average mom and pop businesses, but it would fix a lot of the issues with companies like Wal-Mart, Target, etc.

The deeper we get into the discussion, the more obvious it is that this isn't the answer in itself, but something has to be done.

How many of current CEOs are "skilled" in anything aside from delegating duties and watching the paper roll in? Too many.

#20 Kurb

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:33 PM

I'd expect there to be some rise in cost of living and operations, but in regards to having to pay laborers more, I wouldn't shed a tear in many cases because so many companies are banking in excess. Yes, that would be tough on your average mom and pop businesses, but it would fix a lot of the issues with companies like Wal-Mart, Target, etc.

The deeper we get into the discussion, the more obvious it is that this isn't the answer in itself, but something has to be done.

How many of current CEOs are "skilled" in anything aside from delegating duties and watching the paper roll in? Too many.


Trying to find if me or you said "culturlely skilled" I can't remember the context of what I as trying to say when I said it...anyways.



IMO If min wage goes up---> prices of everything goes up, so really you aren't gaining anything.

This may be a fallacy.

That said I am enjoying everyone's opinions.

#21 Panthro

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:34 PM

Oh I admit such is an issue. The ideal thing would to have reached a high level of your craft so you are in demand at the plant/site/job that NEEDS you and will pay you better than the last.

I don't know how that applies to min wage tho...



It's wage warfare....

My question is how come wages have not increased at a time of record profits and record salaries at the top?

#22 Proudiddy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:35 PM

Just saw your post above my last one Kurb, and agreed again.

My issue has always been that if every unskilled laborer just went on strike, our entire economy and way of life, from the poorest to the richest, would collapse. So, they should at least be paid for their services because they are willing to do what many aren't and it is the foundation of our economy.

#23 Panthro

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

The thing is though...the amount of profit that a Walmart worker brings is actually very high. When I worked at Sears in college, my contribution per hour (profit, not revenue) was several times higher than my actual salary. These numbers were readily accessible and included on your commission report each week. I was paid commission and earned about twice what an average Walmart worker makes in a store that did a fraction of the business a Walmart would.

Employees at Sears and HHGregg can actually make a livable salary because they're paid commission on what they sell, but at Walmart, Target, Best Buy, and countless other retail stores people cannot make a livable wage even though their contribution to store profits is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy higher than what they are paid.

The retail environment used to pay many people a livable wage, but the rise of mega-stores destroyed many of these jobs and replaced them with minimum wage or slightly above minimum wage jobs.


I worked at Sears in college. I loved how they broke that out on the paycheck.

#24 Proudiddy

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:42 PM

Trying to find if me or you said "culturlely skilled" I can't remember the context of what I as trying to say when I said it...anyways.



IMO If min wage goes up---> prices of everything goes up, so really you aren't gaining anything.

This may be a fallacy.

That said I am enjoying everyone's opinions.

I think it is a fallacy, although I could be wrong, but I think it is used to scare the little people into not wanting better. And those forms of conditioning have been in place since social hierarchies have existed.

And I think you said "culturally skilled" originally, so I put it in quotations, not to use it sarcastically, but because it was a relevant term, lol.

I look at it like this... Just as we have been educated on how mortgages work and how the rules and regulations regarding them were necessary, we have been led to believe the same about wages and the economy. Look at what Iceland did with mortgages. I don't see them in a state of civil unrest and chaos.

Every class of people below that 1% are entitled to more and it's possible to give them more, we're just led to believe that it is against our best interest.

#25 Panthro

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:44 PM

That's easy to say when you aren't running the cooperation.


You make hammers.
Every hammer costs 5 dollars to make while the wage is 10$ per hour. 3 of those 5 dollars are wage costs. You sell the hammer for 10$ making 5

Government doubles min wage to 20$ per hour. Now your cost of hammers is 8$ and you are only making 2$ per hammer. You have lost over half of your profit.

Do you shrug your shoulders and say, welp thats tough on me, I will just deal.

Or do you sell your hammer for 13$ and keep making that 5$ per?





I would contract with the Government and sell the hammers for 100$ each, but I'm a dick like that.


See you are taking a snapshot. What if the cost to produce a hammer decreased hypothetically by a dollar every year because I could make them faster or cheaper.

If it cost $5 lat year and it cost $4 this year....what are you Johnny Hammer Corp going to do with that extra $1 in profit?

And there's my rub. The hammersmith doesn't deserve the whole portion but the 10% increase but they do deserve some.

#26 Kurb

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:46 PM

See you are taking a snapshot. What if the cost to produce a hammer decreased hypothetically by a dollar every year because I could make them faster or cheaper.

If it cost $5 lat year and it cost $4 this year....what are you Johnny Hammer Corp going to do with that extra $1 in profit?

And there's my rub. The hammersmith doesn't deserve the whole portion but the 10% increase but they do deserve some.


I would go something along the lines of .50 to the worker for his good work and .50 to the owner b.c he is the owner.

But I agree with your reality as of right now 2$ goes to the owner b/c he is the owner and the worker takes a pay cut.

#27 stirs

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:48 PM

Supply and demand.

Nobody needs employees right now. And thanks to the government sucking more and more private sector cash out of the system to bankroll their elections, employees will not be needed for a good while. So, who cares, they can sign up or go on disability. Nothing matters any longer. Quit worrying.

#28 Panthro

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

I would go something along the lines of .50 to the worker for his good work and .50 to the owner b.c he is the owner.

But I agree with your reality as of right now 2$ goes to the owner b/c he is the owner and the worker takes a pay cut.


I'm a big fan of tying people wages to their productivity/profitability.

#29 Panthro

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

Supply and demand.

Nobody needs employees right now. And thanks to the government sucking more and more private sector cash out of the system to bankroll their elections, employees will not be needed for a good while. So, who cares, they can sign up or go on disability. Nothing matters any longer. Quit worrying.



And Kurb...here is the republican response

#30 stirs

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:55 PM

And Kurb...here is the republican response


that is actually the frustrated conservative's response.

One that is based on what has happened over the last 12 years where the country spends more than it has, and borrows like there is no tomorrow. All rules of economics seem to no longer apply. Need to get re elected? Just promise to give everyone a bunch of stuff and demonize your opponent as one who won't give you as much. Don't have the cash? Who cares. Spend it anyway.

This is the new rules for operating a country.


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