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For those that are all up in arms about Pat McCrory's "cuts" for education.


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#1 pstall

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

I know some of you have already thrown up your hands along with the towel.

Here is some context and history:

Two years ago, when North Carolina faced a potential $3 billion budget hole, then-UNC system President Erskine Bowles raised the prospect of closing one or more of the state’s 17 campuses.


The UNC system endured a budget cut of more than $400 million two years ago, almost 15 percent, and per-student state funding dropped nearly 13 percent from 2007-2008 to 2011-2012.
Gov. Pat McCrory proposed a budget this week that reduces overall spending by nearly $139 million next year. But his budget did not call for closures or consolidations.

It should be noted that locally in Charlotte, the Dems on the County Board are saying the Republicans are anti universities and I'm sure racist when they are behind closed doors.

The person who hatched this idea was Erskine Bowles. Former Clinton admin guy and a umm..well, a umm. Democrat.

http://www.charlotte...any-of-the.html

#2 thatlookseasy

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:46 PM

Yeah no poo, they have been cutting university funding for a while now. And yes, these cuts will be worse since everyone has already made tough decisions on what to cut and will now have to make even further cuts.

The part I find bullshit is that the state refuses to allow schools to admit more out of state students- if you arent going to support your public universities, then the schools dont have the same obligation to in state students. Schools like UNC and state could cover most of these cuts by letting in a few more out of state students, but they are subject to fines if their in-state ratio is too low

#3 pstall

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

oh im with TLE. its the over reaction of some or the pointing at one party when this is BOTH.

#4 bigjohn

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

It was interesting to get an email earlier this week with quotes from our governor and some legislators about how they were "very concerned" with the fact that our average teacher salary is now 48th in the nation. That 1% raise he is projecting should make up that ground nicely.

#5 cookinwithgas

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

Is he concerned we are not making a push for #50?

#6 pstall

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

he could have said no. last i checked 1% is more than 0.

#7 g5jamz

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:02 PM

The 18% rule for out of state students is in place BECAUSE of the heavy dose of state funding that keeps tuition for in-state students low.

I'm not going to worry too much about funding. The systems can cut back programs that are producing less-than-productive members of society.

#8 thatlookseasy

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

The 18% rule for out of state students is in place BECAUSE of the heavy dose of state funding that keeps tuition for in-state students low.

I'm not going to worry too much about funding. The systems can cut back programs that are producing less-than-productive members of society.


Of course, nobody is saying remove the 18% rule. But it should be raised proportionally with cuts- if you cut the schools funding 10% then allow 20% out of state students.

#9 Saxist Fed

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:18 PM

One thing about the gov: He was sure having fun at tacomac tonight

#10 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:16 AM

It was interesting to get an email earlier this week with quotes from our governor and some legislators about how they were "very concerned" with the fact that our average teacher salary is now 48th in the nation. That 1% raise he is projecting should make up that ground nicely.



How does that compare and contrast with the cost of living per state? Sure, NC and most Southern states are on the bottom end of the scale for teacher pay, but they also tend to have a much lower cost of living. Connecticut I think has the highest teacher pay, but they have to pay more because its so damned expensive to live there. The average cost of a house is double what it is in NC. Rent is also significantly higher.

#11 bigjohn

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:01 AM

How does that compare and contrast with the cost of living per state? Sure, NC and most Southern states are on the bottom end of the scale for teacher pay, but they also tend to have a much lower cost of living. Connecticut I think has the highest teacher pay, but they have to pay more because its so damned expensive to live there. The average cost of a house is double what it is in NC. Rent is also significantly higher.



That is true, which is why I tend to focus on how we compare to the rest of the Southeast. And in the last ten years, we are dead last in the country in pay raises.

Even factoring in cost of living, we are still near the bottom from the studies that I have seen. Cost of living adjustments are admittedly hard to compare from state to state-- city by city is a fairer comparison and even those vary widely. Obviously the biggest difference is housing.

Several years ago I had the opportunity to do some research (this was when North Carolina was 28th in teacher pay, which happened for a very short while-- we've fallen 20 places in ten years). We compared salaries from a lost of different types of jobs by state. In just about every comparison, teachers made a larger percentage less than their counterparts in other states as compared to the difference in salary from other professions. For example, attorneys made 18% less in NC than in Massachusetts, nurses made 20% less, teachers made 30% less (made up numbers there-- I don't have that research in front of me and it was ten years old anyway).

Don't get me wrong-- I don't expect to get paid 6 figures as a teacher. I understand that I can be the best at what I do in the whole darn state, and I will still get paid less than the worst divorce attourney or ER nurse. It is just sad to see the emphasis we don't put on education, and our best and brightest students are not going into teaching based primarily on the salary they will make.

#12 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

Fwiw, I agree with you to an extent. I just wanted to point out that the numbers being throw out were misleading.

My wife has a degree in elementary education and taught for a while at a Montessori school, but when she moved here, she decided not to teach. It wasn't because of the pay, at least not directly. It was because of the low pay in comparison to the hours worked.

#13 bigjohn

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:02 PM

It wasn't because of the pay, at least not directly. It was because of the low pay in comparison to the hours worked.


I understand that! My wife and I are both working on some paperwork now. I just came on here to bitch and look at boobs. :D

#14 pstall

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

don't forget teachers can get raises per their city or county. in ADDITION to what the state may give.

but as a guy whose wife is a teacher who is certified with a Masters, yes, they need more. but only the ones that are good. not the ones showing up year after year. this ain't the huddle.

#15 bigjohn

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:46 PM

don't forget teachers can get raises per their city or county. in ADDITION to what the state may give.

but as a guy whose wife is a teacher who is certified with a Masters, yes, they need more. but only the ones that are good. not the ones showing up year after year. this ain't the huddle.


Yep but the amount the state sends to each school system has dropped, so local systems have for the most part been unable to raise their supplements. (We have had one raise in supplement in my county in the 19 years I've been a teacher). In fact, I took a 20% cut in my coaches supplement this year (which is very low to begin with).

I agree 100% that the good ones deserve better pay. But how do you judge one teacher compared to the next? I know I'm a good teacher, but you can't go by just test scores (especially in some disciplines). And do you pay a chemistry teacher more than an art teacher, etc.

In a perfect world (in my opinion), you make it easier to get rid of the crappy teachers, pay the rest a more competitive salary (which would attract some of your higher level students to go into education).


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