Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

What did you see to support the claim our secondary improved over the course of last season?


93 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Simple question just as the thread title says. I don't personally think the secondary got much better since good QBs still played well, the competition just got worse. However, many people disagree so I would like to know what specifically happened to make people believe they got better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

just go look at the stats.

compare the yrd passing and completion % from the beg to the end.

you will have your answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='chef17' timestamp='1367304058' post='2218201']
Simple question just as the thread title says. I don't personally think the secondary got much better since good QBs still played well, the competition just got worse. However, many people disagree so I would like to know what specifically happened to make people believe they got better.
[/quote]


Well what says it has gotten worse........just adding the 2 DT will help the us in run defense and allow the LB to be free which in turn gives secondary less to worry about stoping the run and allow them to focus on pass coverage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

First Half
9 TDs
1969 yards
6 INTs
67.15 completion %

Second Half
13 TDs
1879 yards
5 INTs
66.67 completion %

That isn't much improvement. Could argue they got worse.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='sanjay_rajput' timestamp='1367305258' post='2218206']


Well what says it has gotten worse........just adding the 2 DT will help the us in run defense and allow the LB to be free which in turn gives secondary less to worry about stoping the run and allow them to focus on pass coverage.
[/quote]

Not saying they got worse. And I'm asking about last season, not if they will be better this season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

First Half
9 TDs
1969 yards
6 INTs
67.15 completion %

Second Half
13 TDs
1879 yards
5 INTs
66.67 completion %

That isn't much improvement. Could argue they got worse.

 

 

 

Dude, If you want someone to make you feel better about LAST years D. Jump in the car, drive to your mom's, and explain your fears. Maybe she can give you a hug and make it all better.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Simple question just as the thread title says. I don't personally think the secondary got much better since good QBs still played well, the competition just got worse. However, many people disagree so I would like to know what specifically happened to make people believe they got better.

 

 

 

Can't support last season, but I can tell you about this season. As long as Nakamura is not starting that is an instant upgrade. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

our defense was ranked 10th overall at the end of the season. What were they ranked in week 8?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

You should look at the overall points allowed teams that beat us through the air later in the season were doing it off play action because we couldn't stop the run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I really feel that we are better there. We don't have a legitimate shutdown corner in Gamble anymore but we now have "playmakers".

I think thats an important part in a Rivera Defense. When you look back at his defenses in Chicago and SD, he never really had any shutdown corner but instead he had guys who can create turnovers. Athletic guys who can get INTs. I feel very comfortable with guys like DJ Moore and Florence added into the mix. With those guys in and a much improve DLine, I look to see more turnovers from the secondary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I don't think you can just compare stats from first to second halves because the players who were coming in to replace Gamble and Norman were coming off the practice squad or playing with the numbers 2 not the starters. Most of these guys were thrown into the fire with little preparation and practice forced to produce under fire.
What do I look at? If you see Thomas and Dockery for example at the end of the season, they were not playing 7 yards off the receiver, they were jamming guys off the line and playing tight coverage giving the line time to pressure the quarterback. When Godfrey went to free safety he was able to keep up with receivers and add support on deep balls. Campbell came in and was solid at SS and able to play the short zone.

When you add that we have picked up some upgrades in free agency and will not be so vulnerable to play action since the secondary can play the pass first instead of the run, we should be even better than we were at the end of last year. Certainly enough for optimism at this point. We have 13 DBs already on the roster, I think we can find 4 or 5 starters and some backups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I really feel that we are better there. We don't have a legitimate shutdown corner in Gamble anymore but we now have "playmakers".

I think thats an important part in a Rivera Defense. When you look back at his defenses in Chicago and SD, he never really had any shutdown corner but instead he had guys who can create turnovers. Athletic guys who can get INTs. I feel very comfortable with guys like DJ Moore and Florence added into the mix. With those guys in and a much improve DLine, I look to see more turnovers from the secondary.

 

who do you consider a "playmaker" in our secondary?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

who do you consider a "playmaker" in our secondary?


Come on bro, don't act like you never heard of Florence Island. Don't let 5 different teams in the last 6 years fool you...he is a baller.
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

who do you consider a "playmaker" in our secondary?


DJ Moore : 10 ints the last three years.

Norman is a pretty good athletic corner. It's just a matter of him being comfortable and adjusting to the speed in NFL.

Captain had two ints for TD last season.

And Florence is a better corner than what people think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

DJ Moore : 10 ints the last three years.

Norman is a pretty good athletic corner. It's just a matter of him being comfortable and adjusting to the speed in NFL.

Captain had two ints for TD last season.

And Florence is a better corner than what people think.

 

i didn't know moore had 10 picks in the last 3 years so i'll give you that. it's unfortunate our two best playermakers are 5'9 and 5'7, though. i wouldn't consider anyone else in the secondary anything close to a playmaker... maybe godfrey... rarely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

i didn't know moore had 10 picks in the last 3 years so i'll give you that. it's unfortunate our two best playermakers are 5'9 and 5'7, though. i wouldn't consider anyone else in the secondary anything close to a playmaker... maybe godfrey... rarely.


Moore had always been a nickle.
I'm thinking Norman and Florence will get the outside jobs. Moore may even see times at FS on some packages. If Rivera is really what he was made up to be as a Defensive minded coach, he can get it done now having a talented Dline and front 7. I have a ton of faith in our secondary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 

 

You're an idiot. People have one opinion. I disagree with that opinion so I am asking people to explain why they have that opinion. Since you can't do that kindly stay out of the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I don't think you can just compare stats from first to second halves because the players who were coming in to replace Gamble and Norman were coming off the practice squad or playing with the numbers 2 not the starters. Most of these guys were thrown into the fire with little preparation and practice forced to produce under fire.
What do I look at? If you see Thomas and Dockery for example at the end of the season, they were not playing 7 yards off the receiver, they were jamming guys off the line and playing tight coverage giving the line time to pressure the quarterback. When Godfrey went to free safety he was able to keep up with receivers and add support on deep balls. Campbell came in and was solid at SS and able to play the short zone.

When you add that we have picked up some upgrades in free agency and will not be so vulnerable to play action since the secondary can play the pass first instead of the run, we should be even better than we were at the end of last year. Certainly enough for optimism at this point. We have 13 DBs already on the roster, I think we can find 4 or 5 starters and some backups.

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Now even changing the way they played they were still giving up lots of yards and TDs. Ryan had 300+ 2 TDs, Brees almost 400 4 TDs, Brady Quinn had his only TDs the entire season that game. Which goes to what I said in the OP, did they really get better or did they just appear that way because they faced QBs like Nick Foles and Matt Leinart. IMO they limited lesser QBs (excluding Quinn) but performed bad against the good ones. That happened the entire season, which supports them not really improving much.

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I think I'm understanding the philosophy they are going for.  They already said, shutdown corners are very hard to find, and shutting down any receiver these days is next to impossible with the rules that favor offense.  We've horded small, but "playmaker" corners, who may not shut anyone down, but with the pass rush we should have, will take advantage of bad throws.  So while we may get gashed for some plays, a turnover here and there will theoretically balance it out.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Simple question just as the thread title says. I don't personally think the secondary got much better since good QBs still played well, the competition just got worse. However, many people disagree so I would like to know what specifically happened to make people believe they got better.

 

The coverage improved at the CB position when we benched CB Josh Norman. He cost us the KC game due to poor coverage against the slant, and blown coverage at other times throughout the season. Luke was also doing a poor job in pass coverage, but as the season wore on he started to make less costly mistakes. Naka was horrible, and the less he played, the better things looked. The pass coverage clearly improved imo, but we still have a secondary that doesn't tackle well, and can barely cover well enough to be considered average. The speed and size simply isn't there, but if our pass rush can continue to dominate NFC South rivals like ATL and N.O, then we can get by with scrubs and possibly sweep both teams. If ATL and N.O have greatly improved their pass protection from last season, then we're in deep trouble.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Quarter Breakdown

 

1st

1120 yards

6 TDs

3 INTs

66.9 completion %

 

2nd

849 yards

3 TDs

3 INTs

67.5 completion %

 

3rd

869 yards

6 TDs

2 INTs

68 completion %

 

4th

1010 yards

7 TDs,

3 INTs

65.6 completion %

 

Interesting to see the second quarter was statistically the best.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The coverage improved at the CB position when we benched CB Josh Norman. He cost us the KC game due to poor coverage against the slant, and blown coverage at other times throughout the season. Luke was also doing a poor job in pass coverage, but as the season wore on he started to make less costly mistakes. Naka was horrible, and the less he played, the better things looked. The pass coverage clearly improved imo, but we still have a secondary that doesn't tackle well, and can barely cover well enough to be considered average. The speed and size simply isn't there, but if our pass rush can continue to dominate NFC South rivals like ATL and N.O, then we can get by with scrubs and possibly sweep both teams. If ATL and N.O have greatly improved their pass protection from last season, then we're in deep trouble.  

 

Norman was benched right at the last 4 games started. Statistically, you can argue that was the worse quarter. Why do you say the coverage improved? Are you just going by what you saw?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Norman was benched right at the last 4 games started. Statistically, you can argue that was the worse quarter. Why do you say the coverage improved? Are you just going by what you saw?

 

The last four games were the games that we dominated the scoreboard the most, which would lead to more passing by the opposing team. Those stats don't tell the whole story for either side of the argument, and stats rarely do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Norman was benched right at the last 4 games started. Statistically, you can argue that was the worse quarter. Why do you say the coverage improved? Are you just going by what you saw?

 

I'm not in any way going by stats. I'm just giving my impression of how the coverage looked, and how certain individual players played. I have no idea when the coverage stats improved or declined.

 

There are certain pass plays that can reveal if your secondary has good coverage or not. Certain players in our secondary were exposed technique-wise, and once that happened, teams kept attacking those players. Changes were made, and experience was gained, and the coverage on certain tell-tale pass plays improved. That's what made me feel that the coverage overall had improved. If you want to look at the exact plays I'm talking about then I need video of certain games. Actually I made a post a while back on Norman and what he was doing wrong in the KC game with some pics or a clip. The thing is that if I can see one of our secondary players making big mistakes, then ALL of our opposition can see it and will jump all over it and ride it until we fix it. We fixed it with benching and coaching imo. Stats-wise I have no idea which games were the best. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Simple question just as the thread title says. I don't personally think the secondary got much better since good QBs still played well, the competition just got worse. However, many people disagree so I would like to know what specifically happened to make people believe they got better.

.

.

.

Good QBs playing well are damm near impossible to stop. Hellz, in a passing league, you are lucky to stop anybody. So to you, there was no improvement.

 

 

Someone shows you stats that show improvement. Here is your response.

 

That isn't much improvement. Could argue they got worse.

 

Then you come back with this. Which contradicts your previous statement.

Not saying they got worse. And I'm asking about last season, not if they will be better this season.

 

So I made a joke about your fear of the past. And this is what I got for my trouble.

 

You're an idiot. People have one opinion. I disagree with that opinion so I am asking people to explain why they have that opinion. Since you can't do that kindly stay out of the thread.

 

 

The only person that may be able to allay your fears? You mom. Nothing anyone here has to say will give you enough insight to change your opinion. Futility at it's finest.

 

If you watched the games throughout the year. You saw what the rest of us saw. A bunch of kids doing their best.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites