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What did you see to support the claim our secondary improved over the course of last season?

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#76 koolkatluke

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:00 PM

lets not kid ourselves, they are easy fixes in the draft, FA, or any route to obtain players. he did decide to bring back 2 LBs, and brought Blackburn in. gave Tolbert the extra year on his deal.
 

 

Tolbert is a FB not a scat Back. Which Rivera has been asking for.



#77 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:25 PM

lets not kid ourselves, they are easy fixes in the draft, FA, or any route to obtain players. he did decide to bring back 2 LBs, and brought Blackburn in. gave Tolbert the extra year on his deal.

Blackburn is a vet bandaid. Not a fix. Tolbert isn't the homerun RB.

Vet FAs are short term fixes. The good ones are dang expensive. We don't even dabble with the good ones.

Tolbert got the extra year likely to do what he began last year....he started taking Cam's goaline work.

Gettlemen didn't just randomly draft a RB and LB as BPA. He knows 2014 is the start of fixing the mess and making real progress.

#78 iamhubby1

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:04 AM

The 4th post I compared the first half of the season to the second. Didn't need to read far to see I was talking about just last season.

 

Anyway, you say they forced opponents into passing downs and put more DBs on the field. Yet the opponent was still getting yards, putting up points, and completing a high percentage of passing. How is that improvement?
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The opponent was getting less yards, putting up less points, and completing less passes. All three of your criteria were improved upon. Is that not the definition of improvement?

 

You have refuted every attempted explanation at seeing improvement. So I would expect you to dismiss this one as well.

 

There is no way to prove this statement to your satisfaction.

 



#79 chef17

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:12 AM

Understandable, I agree about stats which is why I'm curious what other people use to support saying the secondary got better.

 

That's fine, I wasn't looking for specific plays or anything. This is what I was asking for. I was curious whether people were using some stat, or just what they saw or something else and you provided that so thanks.

 

 

Ok so you feel the coverage was better and the yardage/TDs came from late prevent/zone defense. Thanks, I appreciate the answer.

 

 

 

 

You really should just stop. There are two of my posts where I thanked the person for explaining why they feel the secondary improved. To say I have refuted every attempt is just stupid and false.

 

Depending on which stretch of games you want to look at the passing yards and completion percentage may have went up or down. However, at no point in the season did the opponent put up more passing TDs than they did at the end. So no all three criteria were not met.



#80 DaCityKats

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:42 AM

Tolbert is a FB not a scat Back. Which Rivera has been asking for.

 

Tolbert is listed as a FB, he is not a FB. he also plays the role of a scat back since he is one of the best  catching the ball out of the backfield. Armond Smith could have been an effective scat back who was already on the roster.



#81 MadHatter

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:44 AM

Tolbert is listed as a FB, he is not a FB. he also plays the role of a scat back since he is one of the best  catching the ball out of the backfield. Armond Smith could have been an effective scat back who was already on the roster.

 

 

Yes Tolbert caught passes out of the backfield.  But, do you EVEN know what the definition of a scat back is?  By calling Tolbert on (he is FAR from it), you apparently don't.

 

Tolbert = bowling ball

 

Scat Back = small, quick, shifty change of pace back

 

Tolbert =/= Scat Back



#82 DaCityKats

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:50 AM

Yes Tolbert caught passes out of the backfield.  But, do you EVEN know what the definition of a scat back is?  By calling Tolbert on (he is FAR from it), you apparently don't.

 

Tolbert = bowling ball

 

Scat Back = small, quick, shifty change of pace back

 

Tolbert =/= Scat Back

 

i said he played the role of a scat back, so let me ask you what types of plays do scat backs run? i never said he was the scat back,he was used as one. he was the best RB on the team catching the ball, with HR ability even with his size.



#83 cbully

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:51 AM

Naka not starting!



#84 panthers55

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:18 AM

 

Depending on which stretch of games you want to look at the passing yards and completion percentage may have went up or down. However, at no point in the season did the opponent put up more passing TDs than they did at the end. So no all three criteria were not met.

 

 

I already explained why many of those TDs at the end were meaningless.  We had big leads against Atlanta and New Orleans in the second half and played more prevent.  The important thing was winning the game not seeing how few passing yards or passing TDs we could hold them to.  I think Rivera has to instill a killer instinct and shut teams down in the 4th quarter though to avoid late losses.  But the DBs and safeties were doing their job.



#85 Who Said What?

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

Exactly!!!
It's always good to have a shutdown corner but a shutdown corner alone doesn't win you a championship. You need guys that can create turnovers.

-Oakland and Philly didn't win a SB with Nnamdi.
-Washington and Denver never won one with Bailey.
-NYJ never won it with Revis

 

Most of these guys were early picks.  People are mad because Gettleman didn't spend a fifth rounder on Rambo.  Yet last year, we got Campbell in the seventh.  He played well when given the chance, but Rambo would be head and shoulders better.  You cannot fix everything in one draft and most teams have to have a plan.  Ours plan is wreak havoc up front and have solid guys clean up on the back end.  In real life, you cannot have a pro-bowler at every position.  I am tired of this Madden philosophy permeating the board.



#86 carolina-chuck

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

Most of these guys were early picks.  People are mad because Gettleman didn't spend a fifth rounder on Rambo.  Yet last year, we got Campbell in the seventh.  He played well when given the chance, but Rambo would be head and shoulders better.  You cannot fix everything in one draft and most teams have to have a plan.  Ours plan is wreak havoc up front and have solid guys clean up on the back end.  In real life, you cannot have a pro-bowler at every position.  I am tired of this Madden philosophy permeating the board.

 

I agree. Good say.

 

But, like I said before I think that Lester is just a good of a safety as McDonald, Phillip Thomas, and Rambo who all got drafted. Just consider Lester as our 7th rd pick.



#87 rayzor

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:44 AM

I already explained why many of those TDs at the end were meaningless.  We had big leads against Atlanta and New Orleans in the second half and played more prevent.  The important thing was winning the game not seeing how few passing yards or passing TDs we could hold them to.  I think Rivera has to instill a killer instinct and shut teams down in the 4th quarter though to avoid late losses.  But the DBs and safeties were doing their job.

agreed and well said.



#88 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:31 AM

i said he played the role of a scat back, so let me ask you what types of plays do scat backs run? i never said he was the scat back,he was used as one. he was the best RB on the team catching the ball, with HR ability even with his size.

 

He played the role of a 3rd down RB.....not a scat back.  He also only saw consistant success as a goalline runner.

 

Kuhn plays some 3rd downs for GB.  He isn't being a scat back.



#89 iamhubby1

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:34 AM

You really should just stop. There are two of my posts where I thanked the person for explaining why they feel the secondary improved. To say I have refuted every attempt is just stupid and false.

 

Depending on which stretch of games you want to look at the passing yards and completion percentage may have went up or down. However, at no point in the season did the opponent put up more passing TDs than they did at the end. So no all three criteria were not met.

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Maybe you should take your own advice. Because you have become redundantly silly.

 

Way to pick and chose what you want to believe. You asked about improvement. That implies over time, not just a handful of games.

 

Dude, you really are going, all in, on this aren't you. IF you read everything I posted, which would probably help in the long run. I said you refuted. ALMOST, every point brought up to show improvement.

 

You started the perfect thread for you. You can dispel any answer you don't like out of hand. And you have. Just to keep this thread alive.

 

If our D finished the year near the top ten. That is a pretty good D. We WON games with that D. What more do you want? There has been plenty of insight and stats given to you to show improvement. Yet you continue to disregard almost all of them.

 

Keep up the decent work.

 



#90 rayzor

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:05 PM

i said he played the role of a scat back, so let me ask you what types of plays do scat backs run? i never said he was the scat back,he was used as one. he was the best RB on the team catching the ball, with HR ability even with his size.

 

he was also used like a TE some.

 

i viewed him as a multi-tool kind of like a swiss army knife...or hammer. i dunno.

 

he's not a scat back, but he was put into a lot of situations that a scat back would be put in among other things.

 

barner is much better suited for that role of scat back, but i still think that they will find quite a few ways to use tolbert, in fact i doubt his roles in the game won't be diminished much at all. he's just too useful.
 





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