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#121 sanjay_rajput

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:17 PM

1st point/Paragraph) Rivera's not a big time coach. So what makes you think that Gettleman doesn't have influence over Rivera, especially when Ronnie was on the hot seat last year, when most observers felt he should have lost his job?? Rivera has no express power in this relationship. He's a collaborator at best. That's where the smart $$ is. 

 

2) No, the De-Emphasis of the Read Option, actually started around the middle of the season, when Hurney got fired and Rivera knew his job was on the line, and needed to do something to save it. This was directly expressed by Rivera in a NFL.com article by Albert Breer earlier this year. 

 

I'm sure when Gettleman came in and saw the film (with or with out Rivera and Shula's input), he reinforced the less Read Option notion. And if you watch NY Giants games, it's pretty obvious why. Cam and Eli really do have a lot in common as far as how they throw the ball (excellent, rugged, upright, downfield throwers, who can be inconsistent in the short and intermediate game, who eventually get hot again and make some outstanding throws, plays and drives after). When Gettleman see's Cam, I'm sure he sees Eli as well.  And Cam is way ahead of where Eli was his first 2 years. Makes sense?

 

The reason why many talk about Gettleman vs Rivera the way we do is for three simple reasons:

 

1) Most strong General Managers have Direct input of Coaching Philosophy, Player Direction, and the type of team they will implement. That's no secret.  

 

2) More importantly: Rivera is a weak coach, in no position to dictate to or ignore Gettleman if he knows what's good for him. Rivera's is/has been on the hot seat, and will continue to be, unless his team makes the playoffs, or misses out with a winning record. And the Panthers need that now. You essentially had a team last year, with a inexperienced 2nd year HC, an inexperienced, hard headed 2nd year OC, and a non football GM. Where were the grown ups to over see the children?

 

3) Gettleman, has been around football as long/longer than Rivera. And he came highly recommended--as the GM by Ernie Accorsi, Richardson's GM consultant. Who do you think Richardson trust, believes more at this stage? And if you think it's Rivera, please tell me why with his track record of admitted futility, poor management and in-experienced coaching moves so far?

 

 

 

 

This is Gettleman 1st year as a GM he still has to prove  that he was the right hire...( I believe he will be good GM so far he has done a good job...but wait at least couple of years!)  Second if he was so good why wasn't he hired as GM longtime ago.

 

you say all that about Rivera then why did Richardson keep Rivera in first place instead of   letting his Highly regarded  GM that has godly knowledge of football than anyone else hire his own coach that would be better than  this inexperienced coach......

 

Teams are successful in the NFL by players 1st, Coaches, 2nd and then ....GM ............ New York giants (couch Coughlin)

San-Fransico - (jim harbaugh) - Ravens- ( John Harbaugh), Seattle -(Pete Carroll), Steelers - (Mike Tomplin), Saints -(Sean Peyton), Patriots - (Belichick)  Atlanta - (Mike Smith), Houston - (Gary Kubiak) ...and on on

 

These team do have good GM but the point of the GM is to bring in the necessary players and keep financial stability  and place the team in position to be successful ........It always comes down to coaches and players 

 

He is not big time coach right now because he was never truly placed in position to do so........i think you hatred for Rivera and ego is coming in the way.........but you'll find out how good of coach he is ..........how bout  ban from the forum for life! if i'm right after this season.



#122 FootballMaestro

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:46 PM

This is Gettleman 1st year as a GM he still has to prove  that he was the right hire...( I believe he will be good GM so far he has done a good job...but wait at least couple of years!)  Second if he was so good why wasn't he hired as GM longtime ago.

 

you say all that about Rivera then why did Richardson keep Rivera in first place instead of   letting his Highly regarded  GM that has godly knowledge of football than anyone else hire his own coach that would be better than  this inexperienced coach......

 

Teams are successful in the NFL by players 1st, Coaches, 2nd and then ....GM ............ New York giants (couch Coughlin)

San-Fransico - (jim harbaugh) - Ravens- ( John Harbaugh), Seattle -(Pete Carroll), Steelers - (Mike Tomplin), Saints -(Sean Peyton), Patriots - (Belichick)  Atlanta - (Mike Smith), Houston - (Gary Kubiak) ...and on on

 

These team do have good GM but the point of the GM is to bring in the necessary players and keep financial stability  and place the team in position to be successful ........It always comes down to coaches and players 

 

He is not big time coach right now because he was never truly placed in position to do so........i think you hatred for Rivera and ego is coming in the way.........but you'll find out how good of coach he is ..........how bout  ban from the forum for life! if i'm right after this season.

 

1) Unfortunately, most of what you wrote was indecipherable. 

2) Gettleman may be 'unproven' as you say. But that's better than being bad in so many areas, which Rivera has already shown/proven in so many instances. At this stage/unlike Rivera, Gettleman has a clean slate. 

 

Gettleman wasn't hired previously, because he didn't market himself like other GM's.He's Ole Skool, and has said as much publicly and to the Giants, when he removed himself from GM consideration several years ago. However, what you should be asking yourself is: Why was he hired over so many other young hot shots after the season?

3) You ask "why did Richardson keep Rivera", etc. I ask, why did he let him twist in the wind, if he was such a good, deserving coach? No owner would ever place a respected, deserving coach through that. 

 

The irony is: You're making my argument for me regarding coaches vs GM's, players. 

 

The Ravens, Seattle, The Steelers, Patriots, Atlanta and the Giants, are all known for having hired excellent General Managers, and/or having excellent longtime team organization and management. You could have said the same about San Francisco up until a few years ago.  The great organizations always come from the top down, not vice versa. 

 

4) I don't hate Rivera at all. I just don't think he's been terribly un-impressive in some critical areas, which has cost the Panthers games his first two years. That's a fact.  More importantly, It doesn't matter what I think. Rivera was on the hot seat last year, and therefore is in no position to dictate to the New General Manager? Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Rivera, is currently nobody in the NFL's eyes, until proven otherwise. That's the nature of the business, not what I think.

 

Nonetheless, I hope he gets better, learned his lessons, and has a great year. We're all counting on it/him!



#123 sanjay_rajput

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:58 PM

1) Unfortunately, most of what you wrote was indecipherable. 

2) Gettleman may be 'unproven' as you say. But that's better than being bad in so many areas, which Rivera has already shown/proven in so many instances.

 

Gettleman wasn't hired previously, because he didn't market himself like other GM's.He's Ole Skool, and has spoken about this. However, what you should be asking yourself is: Why was he hired over so many other young hot shots?

3) You ask "why did Richardson keep Rivera", etc. I ask, why did he let him twist in the wind, if he was such a good, deserving coach? No owner would ever place a respected, deserving coach through that. 

 

The irony is: You're making my argument for me regarding coaches vs GM's, players. 

 

The Ravens, Seattle, The Steelers, Patriots, Atlanta and the Giants, are all known for having hired excellent General Managers, and/or having excellent longtime team organization and management. You could have said the same about San Francisco up until a few years ago.  The great organizations always come from the top down, not vice versa. 

 

4) I don't hate Rivera at all. I just don't think he's been terribly un-impressive in some critical areas, which has cost the Panthers games. That's a fact.  More importantly: It doesn't matter what I think. Rivera was on the hot seat last year, and therefore is in no position to dictate to the New General Manager? Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Rivera, is currently nobody in the NFL's eyes, until proven otherwise. That's the nature of the business. Nonetheless, I hope he gets better, learned his lessons, and have a great year. 

 

Why did Richardson keep him maybe because he has faith in him that he can take them to the Playoffs then to the Superbowl why would he waste a year of time and keep him instead of letting his GM start his team the way he wanted to. Rivera isn't perfect but  he knows that if he could get a good GM that can place the team in good position  then RIvera will be a successful coach.

 

Gettleman wasn't hire because he is old school.....no he wasn't hired because  no team wanted him until Panthers came and picked him up.  

 

I didn't say he was dictating to the new GM....... i'm only saying  the our GM is not the driving force behind the coaching of the team.

 



#124 FootballMaestro

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:06 PM

Why did Richardson keep him maybe because he has faith in him that he can take them to the Playoffs then to the Superbowl why would he waste a year of time and keep him instead of letting his GM start his team the way he wanted to. Rivera isn't perfect but  he knows that if he could get a good GM that can place the team in good position  then RIvera will be a successful coach.

 

Gettleman wasn't hire because he is old school.....no he wasn't hired because  no team wanted him until Panthers came and picked him up.  

 

I didn't say he was dictating to the new GM....... i'm only saying  the our GM is not the driving force behind the coaching of the team.

Bottom Line: Richardson made Rivera twist in the wind, and have every reporter speculate on him getting fired. Good, respected coaches don't go through that, if their owners had the "faith" in them  you're saying JR had for Rivera. One could argue, that Richardson was just being 'Cheap', and didn't want to pay two coaches (or he wasn't sure of RR's fate). Why is this so hard to understand?

 

You obviously don't know Gettleman's GM background and story. So I'll leave it there, if his background/history was lost on you. 

 

I'm saying Rivera, CAN'T DICTATE TO THE GM, and if anything, it's the GM dictating to him. And at best (for Rivera) he's a collaborator, with Gettleman having the final say, as DG has said prevously!

 

The direction of the team, expressly affects the coaching. Plus, if Gettleman sees something he doesn't like during a game or film, he will discuss it with Rivera, and possibly give suggestions. That's his job. 

 

I think you were too used to Marty Hurney being GM, instead of a no nonsense GM with a coaching and player personell background (in successful organizations to boot), as Gettleman. 

 

What do you think a Good General Manager does? Plus, Gettleman's not the one on the hot seat. Rivera is (until proven otherwise). 



#125 sanjay_rajput

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:25 PM

Bottom line is Richardson kept Rivera even with 2 losing season!!!!!!!!!! and didn't let his new GM pick out his own head coach.....yes of course Gettleman is going to give advice and vice versa  but the bottom line is that  coaching is going to be left to Rivera!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

 

I think being cheap wasn't the reason ........if Richardson believed that he wasn't a good coach and would have a another losing season which would equal to less revenue (tickets, Merchandise,..etc) for the team = less money for Richardson......... he would have hired a new coach. 

 

No i'm not used to Hurney....i like Gettleman as the GM and he will do a good job but I also believe that RIvera is a good coach and will be one of the up and coming coach that you will be riding the bandwagon halfway through the season............ don't go to hiding when where in week 8 :)



#126 CRA

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:06 PM

1st point/Paragraph) Rivera's not a big time coach. So what makes you think that Gettleman doesn't have influence over Rivera, especially when Ronnie was on the hot seat last year, when most observers felt he should have lost his job?? Rivera has no express power in this relationship. He's a collaborator at best. That's where the smart $$ is.

2) No, the De-Emphasis of the Read Option, actually started around the middle of the season, when Hurney got fired and Rivera knew his job was on the line, and needed to do something to save it. This was directly expressed by Rivera in a NFL.com article by Albert Breer earlier this year.

I'm sure when Gettleman came in and saw the film (with or with out Rivera and Shula's input), he reinforced the less Read Option notion. And if you watch NY Giants games, it's pretty obvious why. Cam and Eli really do have a lot in common as far as how they throw the ball (excellent, rugged, upright, downfield throwers, who can be inconsistent in the short and intermediate game, who eventually get hot again and make some outstanding throws, plays and drives after). When Gettleman see's Cam, I'm sure he sees Eli as well. And Cam is way ahead of where Eli was his first 2 years. Makes sense?

The reason why many talk about Gettleman vs Rivera the way we do is for three simple reasons:

1) Most strong General Managers have Direct input of Coaching Philosophy, Player Direction, and the type of team they will implement. That's no secret.

2) More importantly: Rivera is a weak coach, in no position to dictate to or ignore Gettleman if he knows what's good for him. Rivera's is/has been on the hot seat, and will continue to be, unless his team makes the playoffs, or misses out with a winning record. And the Panthers need that now. You essentially had a team last year, with a inexperienced 2nd year HC, an inexperienced, hard headed 2nd year OC, and a non football GM. Where were the grown ups to over see the children?

3) Gettleman, has been around football as long/longer than Rivera. And he came highly recommended--as the GM by Ernie Accorsi, Richardson's GM consultant. Who do you think Richardson trust, believes more at this stage? And if you think it's Rivera, please tell me why with his track record of admitted futility, poor management and in-experienced coaching moves so far?


1. Belichick wasn't a big time coach either 2 years in. I think people are too tough on Rivera....he admits he is learning. Dude knows his X's and O's.....and I wouldn't give Gettlemen an edge on that stuff.

2. Rivera has to worry about pleasing Richardson....more so than Gettlemen. Big Cat makes the calls here....our history backs that.

3. If the Big Cat trusted our old first time GM as much as some imply.....he would have allowed him come in here and build his team. He didn't. JR made the call on the Rivera/Cam era and basically told Gettlemen to deal with it.

#127 CRA

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:10 PM

1) Unfortunately, most of what you wrote was indecipherable.
2) Gettleman may be 'unproven' as you say. But that's better than being bad in so many areas, which Rivera has already shown/proven in so many instances. At this stage/unlike Rivera, Gettleman has a clean slate.

Gettleman wasn't hired previously, because he didn't market himself like other GM's.He's Ole Skool, and has said as much publicly and to the Giants, when he removed himself from GM consideration several years ago. However, what you should be asking yourself is: Why was he hired over so many other young hot shots after the season?
3) You ask "why did Richardson keep Rivera", etc. I ask, why did he let him twist in the wind, if he was such a good, deserving coach? No owner would ever place a respected, deserving coach through that.

The irony is: You're making my argument for me regarding coaches vs GM's, players.

The Ravens, Seattle, The Steelers, Patriots, Atlanta and the Giants, are all known for having hired excellent General Managers, and/or having excellent longtime team organization and management. You could have said the same about San Francisco up until a few years ago. The great organizations always come from the top down, not vice versa.

4) I don't hate Rivera at all. I just don't think he's been terribly un-impressive in some critical areas, which has cost the Panthers games his first two years. That's a fact. More importantly, It doesn't matter what I think. Rivera was on the hot seat last year, and therefore is in no position to dictate to the New General Manager? Why is that so hard to understand?

Rivera, is currently nobody in the NFL's eyes, until proven otherwise. That's the nature of the business, not what I think.

Nonetheless, I hope he gets better, learned his lessons, and has a great year. We're all counting on it/him!


Talent has cost Rivera many games....coaching a few.

#128 FastNFurious

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:36 PM

Inquiring minds would like to know why it took 10 freaking games(8 of which we lost) to figure out that we needed to "change" something.



#129 iamhubby1

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:15 PM

I want to play.

There have been numerous examples through history of coaches being told to play, or not play, certain players. So I would think coaches are third in line of succession.

JR wanted to make the best choice possible where it came to GM. But the Rivera situation had to be dealt with before he made that decision. After JR sat down with Rivera, he came away impressed that Rivera was still the man for the job.

Nobody knows, or knew, Gettlemens' career plains before he got here. He very well may have been happy with what he was doing. And when JR came calling he decided it was time to take the plunge.

Lastly, I am a firm believer that as long as there is growth, you have to give your coach that third year. Especially with the mess Rivera inherited. I personally think he has done a really good job. And if he stays true to his roots, with Gettlemens' help, he is going to be a very good HC. And I can live with that.

Ok, thanks for listening. Carry on.

#130 CRA

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:39 PM

I want to play.

There have been numerous examples through history of coaches being told to play, or not play, certain players. So I would think coaches are third in line of succession.

JR wanted to make the best choice possible where it came to GM. But the Rivera situation had to be dealt with before he made that decision. After JR sat down with Rivera, he came away impressed that Rivera was still the man for the job.

Nobody knows, or knew, Gettlemens' career plains before he got here. He very well may have been happy with what he was doing. And when JR came calling he decided it was time to take the plunge.

Lastly, I am a firm believer that as long as there is growth, you have to give your coach that third year. Especially with the mess Rivera inherited. I personally think he has done a really good job. And if he stays true to his roots, with Gettlemens' help, he is going to be a very good HC. And I can live with that.

Ok, thanks for listening. Carry on.


Name a GM that isn't an owner that has done it....if there are so many numerous examples of GMs acting as coaches. Coaches are 3rd in line for what? The playcalls on the field?

The Rivera decision didnt have to be made before Gettlemen was hired. That is why the Big Cat was criticized for it. That is suppose to be a GM's job normally.

#131 iamhubby1

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:12 PM

Name a GM that isn't an owner that has done it....if there are so many numerous examples of GMs acting as coaches. Coaches are 3rd in line for what? The playcalls on the field?

The Rivera decision didnt have to be made before Gettlemen was hired. That is why the Big Cat was criticized for it. That is suppose to be a GM's job normally.


Prove me wrong. Innocent until proven guilty. Happens, even if you don't belive it. Just maybe this is one of those rare things you are aware of. That may be possible.

You really go overboard don't you? 3rd in line of succession is pretty self explanatory.

Truly sorry I misled you. I should have just said with all the speculation going on in the media on Rivera's fate, JR decided to sit down with Rivera. After that meeting JR decided to retain Rivera. Also common knowledge, or so I thought.

JR may have wanted to wait on the GM, it just didn't work that way.

#132 CRA

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:01 PM

Prove me wrong. Innocent until proven guilty. Happens, even if you don't belive it. Just maybe this is one of those rare things you are aware of. That may be possible.You really go overboard don't you? 3rd in line of succession is pretty self explanatory.Truly sorry I misled you. I should have just said with all the speculation going on in the media on Rivera's fate, JR decided to sit down with Rivera. After that meeting JR decided to retain Rivera. Also common knowledge, or so I thought.JR may have wanted to wait on the GM, it just didn't work that way.

Okay, so you claim there are numerous examples....I ask for only one...and you can't give one. I said it happens but the only examples I know where GM/OWNERS.

I will have to ask again....Rivera is 3rd in line in regards to what? Playcalling? What happens on the field come Sunday?