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AZ takes hit by Supreme Court on voter ID law


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#106 cookinwithgas

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:05 PM

ahhh, anecdotes, no qualifications.
Shoulda known

 

Still no answer from you so i'm still about 100 percent better at this than you. I will stand by what I am saying, and here is the evidence:

 

http://www.marinecor...bests-Obama-2-1

 

And my military friends would tell me Romney was no better or worse than Obama on most topics - they just vote Republican.



#107 mav1234

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:05 PM

twylght, so uh where are you getting 50% from because that figure is made up in your head I think.



#108 cookinwithgas

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:09 PM

?



#109 mav1234

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:10 PM

I'm just curious where that 50% number came from, since 44% of Americans are expected to owe no income tax in 2013.  However, the idea those 44% don't pay taxes is beyond retarded considering the rest of our tax burden.  Keep in mind the various state, local, and goods taxes.  There is also 0 evidence that all of these people will vote vote vote to increase taxes on higher income brackets... quite a bit of the opposite, really.

 

If we're talking about Romney's 47% (which wasn't true when he said it but was a couple years back, and isn't true now), at the time he said that comment, there  was a poll out that said approximately 40% of people in the lowest income bracket would have voted for him.  Who knows how many would have following his speech. :P On top of that, 22% of the 46.4% (at the time) were actually seniors.  Seniors, like members of my family, that paid taxes for decades, and only aren't now due to senior tax benefits.  Do you think seniors are overwhelmingly voting for an increase in taxes?



#110 twylyght

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:47 PM

I'm just curious where that 50% number came from, since 44% of Americans are expected to owe no income tax in 2013. However, the idea those 44% don't pay taxes is beyond retarded considering the rest of our tax burden. Keep in mind the various state, local, and goods taxes. There is also 0 evidence that all of these people will vote vote vote to increase taxes on higher income brackets... quite a bit of the opposite, really.

If we're talking about Romney's 47% (which wasn't true when he said it but was a couple years back, and isn't true now), at the time he said that comment, there was a poll out that said approximately 40% of people in the lowest income bracket would have voted for him. Who knows how many would have following his speech. :P On top of that, 22% of the 46.4% (at the time) were actually seniors. Seniors, like members of my family, that paid taxes for decades, and only aren't now due to senior tax benefits. Do you think seniors are overwhelmingly voting for an increase in taxes?


Federal taxes. Yes it is true. Not very hard to verify. Google is your friend...

#111 twylyght

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:48 PM

DP

 

"double post" for most people

 

"double penetration" for PSC



#112 mav1234

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:03 PM

Federal taxes. Yes it is true. Not very hard to verify. Google is your friend...

 

Find a single source that says 50% of Americans don't pay taxes - either this year or last year.

 

Find me another that says they all vote to increase taxes.

 

Go for it.  You won't find either. 

 

You might think rounding from 46% to 50% is fine but ffs you're talking about millions of people then, and when our elections are decided by the numbers they are, that difference is, you know, important. =P

 

edit: also do you not consider payroll taxes to be federal taxes?



#113 mav1234

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:15 PM

image.png

image.png

 

soooo.



#114 twylyght

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:25 AM

image.png

image.png

 

soooo.

 

If you pay $15K in federal income tax and then get $17K in federal returns, how much federal income tax have you paid?  If you re-read what I posted before, I did NOT say that 50% people pay no taxes.  In actuality, if you were to show how much of everything we buy is due to taxes, overhead due to regulatory compliance, administrative fees, etc, people would be stunned at how much we actually pay in total.

 

Nevertheless... because of the collective lack of attention spans/dissemenated information/whatever, the vast majority of us simply look at off-the-shelf sales tax and income tax to form our collective perspective of what we pay in taxes.  Hence, my points on how this affects voting behavior. 

 

And before GS pipes in with his usual thread derail attempts (at least any more than it is already), this DOES NOT EXCLUDE CORPORATE WELFARE with respect to what is paid in net taxes.  Corporations are simply more aware of what they do and don't pay in order to put whatever resources on K street to make the system work in their favor.  The rest of us peons don't have such luxuries for representation in DC.  We end up paying the difference for those off-the-shelf goods to offset those costs.

 

So getting back to how this relates to the original OP, voter verification is at least a step in the right direction of addressing what is a bigger problem than people think.  I would personally like it better if there were more consequences built in for ballot officials that commit such crimes, but this being the real world, I'm not holding my breath.



#115 Chimera

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:06 AM

Still no answer from you so i'm still about 100 percent better at this than you. I will stand by what I am saying, and here is the evidence:

http://www.marinecor...bests-Obama-2-1

And my military friends would tell me Romney was no better or worse than Obama on most topics - they just vote Republican.

answer to what? my qualifications to not make ignorant generalizations? well, you got me. i have none.

and this poll does not show 85-15. and it seems to only include those in leadership positions (E5-E8, O3-O5) 80% white, 91% male. What an accurate representation!

Good job, Scooby Doo.

#116 mav1234

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:45 AM

If you pay $15K in federal income tax and then get $17K in federal returns, how much federal income tax have you paid?  If you re-read what I posted before, I did NOT say that 50% people pay no taxes.  In actuality, if you were to show how much of everything we buy is due to taxes, overhead due to regulatory compliance, administrative fees, etc, people would be stunned at how much we actually pay in total.

 

Nevertheless... because of the collective lack of attention spans/dissemenated information/whatever, the vast majority of us simply look at off-the-shelf sales tax and income tax to form our collective perspective of what we pay in taxes.  Hence, my points on how this affects voting behavior. 

 

And before GS pipes in with his usual thread derail attempts (at least any more than it is already), this DOES NOT EXCLUDE CORPORATE WELFARE with respect to what is paid in net taxes.  Corporations are simply more aware of what they do and don't pay in order to put whatever resources on K street to make the system work in their favor.  The rest of us peons don't have such luxuries for representation in DC.  We end up paying the difference for those off-the-shelf goods to offset those costs.

 

So getting back to how this relates to the original OP, voter verification is at least a step in the right direction of addressing what is a bigger problem than people think.  I would personally like it better if there were more consequences built in for ballot officials that commit such crimes, but this being the real world, I'm not holding my breath.

 

I'm going to take this post as you agreeing that more than 50% of Americans pay federal income tax.

 

Now, moving on...

 

What exactly is the bigger problem you refer to in the bolded text?  Please identify that in your comment, because hell, Proposition 200 didn't even bother to identify that, it just said "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION" over and over, and I don't want to assume you mean something you don't.  Obviously if it's a bigger problem than people think, you've got some evidence for that, right?

(fwiw I agree with your last bit of bolded stuff about ballot officials - I think those people, plus absentee fraud, are where there is a real problem)



#117 twylyght

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:35 PM

I'm going to take this post as you agreeing that more than 50% of Americans pay federal income tax.

 

Now, moving on...

 

What exactly is the bigger problem you refer to in the bolded text?  Please identify that in your comment, because hell, Proposition 200 didn't even bother to identify that, it just said "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION" over and over, and I don't want to assume you mean something you don't.  Obviously if it's a bigger problem than people think, you've got some evidence for that, right?

(fwiw I agree with your last bit of bolded stuff about ballot officials - I think those people, plus absentee fraud, are where there is a real problem)

 

I stated that voter fraud by individuals is a bigger issue than people think.  Just going to youtube to find people caught in the act will show that while exposing them is easy, the prosecution rate is a joke.