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Why do we have lack of "difference maker" talent at select areas? Lets look.


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#1 Kurb

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

*
A WHOLE PIE!

Basically we have drafted like hot garbage for 4 years, and this year we were lacking picks....

Lets review.

 

 

2008 NFL Draft
 
Jonathan Stewart - Best pick of the lot.
Jeff Otah-  Out of the league, lost O-Line Talent
Charles Godfrey - Average Safety at best
Dan Connor - A decent pick for back up play
Gary Barnidge - Never produced
Nick Hayden - Junk
Hilee Taylor - Junk
Geoff Schwartz - Hurt and never recovered
Mackenzy Bernadeau - Junk
Also lost a 1st round pick the next year, no worries that draft was poo too.
 
 

2009 NFL Draft

 

Everette Brown Defensive End - Epic bust, lost another 1st round pick
Sherrod Martin Safety  - Out of the league, never learned how to play D
Corvey Irvin Defensive Tackle - Junk
Mike Goodson Running - Junk
Tony Fiammetta Fullback - A good Fullback, but long gone
Duke Robinson Tackle - .Fat Junk.
Captain MunnerlynBest pick of the draft is a solid nickle back
 
Lost another fuging 1st, setting the issues back even more, and a poo draft.
 
 

2010 NFL Draft

 

Jimmy Clausen Quarterback  - Jimmeh got ruined early in his career, bust
Brandon LaFell Wide Receiver - Solid #2 guy, solid pick
Armanti Edwards Quarterback- lost a 2nd the next year, epic bust
Eric Norwood Linebacker - junk
Greg Hardy Defensive End- Greg did squat for his career until last season, a solid pick for development
David Gettis Wide Receiver - junk, hurt, junk
Tony Pike Quarterback - wtf
R.J. Stanford Cornerback - he was decent, then cut, so Junk
Robert McClain Cornerback - same as above

 

 

2011 NFL Draft

Cam Newton #1 Overall and immediately knighted as savior of the franchise. 

 

then 7 mother fugers that were/are hot garbage. The BEST and I mean the absolute BEST of the lot is the hard working but athletically average Pilares, he's never been used really and as such is insignificant. Fua is still on the team, but not for long hopefully. I'm sure he is a nice kid and I hope he can continue playing in the CFL.

 

This draft epicly fuged us. Where we should have added as much protection/weapons for out new QB we added poo picks all around. Refer to the moves Indy made like drafting a TE and TY Hilton. Adding young playmakers to develop with Cam could have made a world of difference in year 2, but we didn't we poo the bed. Zach Williams and that Auburn Tackle that was hurt or whatever doesn't fuging count. 

 

 

 

2012 NFL Draft (AKA Hurney's last gift)

Luke Kuechly Linebacker- Lets start here, as it was Hurneys last good thing. I raged like a 15 year old girl that had been dumped after losing her virginity when we took Luke, I will admit that. Let me explain why, even tho he is a superstar, taking him was filled with ignorance. Beason was on his 2nd year of a huge contract, he was also coming off of another injury. NOTHING was done with his contract to address this. Thomas Davis did have things done to his deal b/c of injury, and the other LBer..I forget his name b.c he's not really memorable, had a stupid contract as well already made up the starters.  So basically HurnDog decided to take a guy that could very well have been a back up with his 1st overall pick.   Now history could tell someone he was wise and grabbed an Ace, but reality is we could have very well had a Healthy Beason at MLB all season and Luke never getting into the game.   Luckily Luke is the player he is and has proved his worth over and over. I am glad to be wrong.
 
Amini Silatolu Guard  - Developmental project 
Frank Alexander Defensive End - Solid rotational guy early, likely a steal
Joe Adams Wide Receiver - *eye roll*
Josh Norman Cornerback - solid
Brad Nortman Punter - What the fuging fug. A punter? 
D.J. Campbell Free Safety - Some guy that got to play

 

Notice this was likely the better draft of the past 4 years (ignoring this year aka 5th year).

Gettleman came into a half stocked cupboard and a checkbook stretched too thin to buy the groceries he needed to make the feast we crave. 

 

Good news is...our young guys that actually make up a Core in the modern NFL are really good players.

 

Cam, Luke, Kalil, Johnson/Hardy are some of the more important positions on your modern NFL team. If players like Amini, Norman, can step up in their second year and our rookies Star, Short, Kug, Barner play out to be ballers we will start to finally develop into contender.

 

Hurney's greatest mistake (and one I peg more on Richardson that Hurndog) is he did the opposite of what he needed to do after the lock out.  Some of the contracts made a ton of sense. Kalil locked up, Great Beason, well he was hurt so blame hurney or the training staff. Olsen trade/deal, Great. After that it all goes to poo.   Signing DWill instead of taking the 3/4th compensatory pick was a bid idea, the kicker...oh fug me the Kickers deal, the LB'ers extentions, and so on. 

 

All these deals and team cap management lead to some new worthy hate. We had invested almost 100 million dollars into the RB position. We had invested insane money into the LB position.  Mean while, FA's that could help in positions of need, say WR, OLine, Saftey, CB, Defensive Tackle went to division rivals and other teams.  Tell me now, would you rather have Charles Godfrey and Deangelo till hes in a retirement home vs Vincent Jackson and a dominate Right Guard or Tackle?   This proved debilitating even more so the following year when the Panthers signed Tolbert, investing EVEN MORE MONEY into a position that is quickly being devalued by the league as a whole. We were throwing money on new tires when the engine of our car was almost falling out of the frame.

 

He resigned the core of a poo team and thus got poo results. 

 

Hurney had his good years, up until things started going South around 2008 he was a solid GM. He brought in talent and drafted "mostly" well.  After the Arizona playoff game I told this board it was a loss that would cripple this team and fanbase for years to come, sadly in this I was right. The Arizona loss was about the same time as JR, Hurney, and Fox had their little camp out bro-fest or whatever it was. Where JR basically told Fox give me back2back winning seasons or you will be let go. This had to have been the same for Hurney as well as they started drafting and playing scared. The ONLY way one can explain the moves, trades, and extensions is that they were those of a man both desperately trying to save his job, jumping on media grenades to protect the owner, and drafting to make a fanbase excited and hopefully get a big gamble to pay off into an exceptional player.  Sadly the last never happened and as such the team Gettleman inherited was devoid of talent at critical area's and virtually broken capwise.  

 

Hurney, Richardson, the Panthers for some ignorant reason thought this was how you begin a new, buy signing back players who had learned to become losers. Hopefully that ideal is eroding from both the fanbase and the players. Hard decision cuts like Gamble, Hangman, and others sent tremors through that locker room that it wasn't happy family time anymore. 

 

So despite what the season yields, understand from my view we might actually be starting to go down the right path. Gettleman has done some moves that are going to look strange. Many players he just can't flat out cut. The assfug stupid amount of guaranteed money attached to their deals makes it impossible, what he has done is start the process of squeezing out the infection. He has started the healing process.

 



#2 Frash Brastard

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:06 PM

Well we can also begin with when you try to have three starters at one position that opportunity cost has to be felt somewhere

#3 NanceUSMC

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

I raged like a 15 year old girl that had been dumped after losing her virginity when we took Luke, I will admit that.

 

To be fair, you were worse than that



#4 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:12 PM

I believe that Gettlemagic has already started changing this culture.  At least all signs point to this... I hope so.



#5 Kurb

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:21 PM

Well we can also begin with when you try to have three starters at one position that opportunity cost has to be felt somewhere

 

I was actually editing the post about that very subject.



#6 Phil

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:23 PM

now i'm depressed again.



#7 rayzor

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:24 PM

now i'm depressed again.

 

why?

 

moral of the story is gettleman looks to be righting the ship that hurney ran aground.
 



#8 AceBoogie

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:25 PM

You were pretty harsh on alot of guys on that list. While Norman has looked better in the preseason the jury is still out on him and he was pretty trash last year. Lets be fair if Edwards is epic bust then Norman is far from solid at this point.



#9 Doc Holiday

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:27 PM

The Luke pick i liked instantly, great pick was the best LB'er in the draft and any time you pick the best player at position X in the draft and he's not a top 5 pick 9/10 he turns out to be great



#10 TheRumGone

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:28 PM

all this proves to me is that Cam Newton really is fuging amazing



#11 Kurb

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:29 PM

To be fair, you were worse than that

and rightfully so. In my mind it was the exact same situation as we had with the Running backs. Had it been a 6th rounder or so I wouldn't have really been all that mad (see Kenjon Barner this year), but Luke was a #9 pick, I had legit reasons. I was dead wrong about his ability tho and I admit that.

 

I believe that Gettlemagic has already started changing this culture.  At least all signs point to this... I hope so.

One has to hope.

 

The elephant in the room, I'm sad to say, is how much influence will Richardson have in Gettleman's dealings. I have little to no doubt many of the big deals that were done (Mainly Beason, Kaili, Williams) had some input from JR. How much was him saying "Go Sign Them To Stupid Contracts" will always be a mystery. 

 

Getts, said he wanted to empower the lines, Offense and Defense. He did this with one and it  appears he is ignoring the other. I don't know if he is ignoring it, playing his cards (most likely and logical), or incapable of signing someone b/c of  upcoming cap issues. For anyone to say he doesn't recognize the right side of the O-line as an issue is being disingenuous and unfair as he is absically a rookie player and we have yet to see enough from him to properly evaluate this. That said, early signs point to him being smart about money and planning for the future.



#12 panthers55

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:29 PM

I think you are being way too critical on some of these picks.  For example what ever happened to waiting for 3 years before evaluating a draft class.

 

Also anytime you find a contributor after the 4th round you are doing great.  Anytime you find a starter outside of the 3rd round you are doing awesome.  Several guys like Hardy and Gettis for example were late round draft picks who have played very well for us.  Sure Gettis has been hurt but you can't know that when you draft them.  And if he returns to form this year ( and it is looking good) he will have been a great pickup.

 

Edwards may have been a bust up to now but if he shines this year it was still worth it.

 

Sure we have some big busts but lets compare that to new Orleans for example and you will find they have done worse than Hurney did.  It hasn't killed them or set them back.  Then again they are more active in the free agent market than we have been.

The moral here is if you are going to rely on the draft for all your players you better be good at drafting.  We haven't always done that.



#13 Kurb

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:33 PM

You were pretty harsh on alot of guys on that list. While Norman has looked better in the preseason the jury is still out on him and he was pretty trash last year. Lets be fair if Edwards is epic bust then Norman is far from solid at this point.

Difference here is the investment of picks and years in the league.

 

 

Armanti has been around now for what 4? years? and has done what? He was a second round pick with a multipick investment. That level of investment has to equate to performance on the field. At this point the only way for him to not be a bust is to have a Randall Cobb level impact on the field.

 

Norman was a 5th round pick investment thrown into a starting job while being a known project. His leash is much much longer. Everyone is so down about him last season because they artificially built him up based on HuddleHype.



#14 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:35 PM

 

 

One has to hope.

 

The elephant in the room, I'm sad to say, is how much influence will Richardson have in Gettleman's dealings. I have little to no doubt many of the big deals that were done (Mainly Beason, Kaili, Williams) had some input from JR. How much was him saying "Go Sign Them To Stupid Contracts" will always be a mystery. 

 

Getts, said he wanted to empower the lines, Offense and Defense. He did this with one and it  appears he is ignoring the other. I don't know if he is ignoring it, playing his cards (most likely and logical), or incapable of signing someone b/c of  upcoming cap issues. For anyone to say he doesn't recognize the right side of the O-line as an issue is being disingenuous and unfair as he is absically a rookie player and we have yet to see enough from him to properly evaluate this. That said, early signs point to him being smart about money and planning for the future.

 

I think we're just going to have to play wait-and-see with the Oline for now.

 

I personally think he's just trying to buy leverage with FA's and just waiting on cuts from other clubs to start.

 

He doesn't have a lot of $$$ to work with so I think he's playing it cool.  But wtf do I know?

 

 

From everything I've seen, he'll get us straight... it might just take two or three seasons... :(



#15 carolina-chuck

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:36 PM

I blame the HC not being able to utilize the given talents.

(Hint: Jim Harbaugh)


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