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Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam


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#76 IGSaint

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:50 AM

C'mon now, Polian can't be right either.  FP just told us there are no basics and all the criticisms are just smoke and mirrors.  He isn't behind the curve and he doesn't have poor mechanics. We are all making this up just to be critical.  All he needs to do is relax and everything will be rosy and fine.

 

That's some bad sarcasm. I don't think there is a single person in this thread who acts like everything is rosy. Cam just like all QB's in this league not named rodgers, brady have things they need to improve upon. Cam has what most consider the best first two seasons of a QB EVER. And that is with one year of major football experience. Cam is ahead of the curve as far as I'm concerned but as others have said you have to build around him on the offense just like any other QB and when has the front office did that in the past two seasons?



#77 panthers55

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:59 AM

That's some bad sarcasm. I don't think there is a single person in this thread who acts like everything is rosy. Cam just like all QB's in this league not named rodgers, brady have things they need to improve upon. Cam has what most consider the best first two seasons of a QB EVER. And that is with one year of major football experience. Cam is ahead of the curve as far as I'm concerned but as others have said you have to build around him on the offense just like any other QB and when has the front office did that in the past two seasons?

 

So you think he is ahead of the curve.  All of the so called experts think he is behind and still has some major flaws.

 

Ok the heck with all of them what do they know right??  Forget they are paid to analyze film and that guys like Polian and Kirwin were GMs in the league.  If huddlers think he is ahead of the curve and all he needs is to relax then who am I to argue.

 

Oh but then I might be using some of that bad sarcasm again......



#78 IGSaint

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:10 AM

So you think he is ahead of the curve.  All of the so called experts think he is behind and still has some major flaws.

 

Ok the heck with all of them what do they know right??  Forget they are paid to analyze film and that guys like Polian and Kirwin were GMs in the league.  If huddlers think he is ahead of the curve and all he needs is to relax then who am I to argue.

 

Oh but then I might be using some of that bad sarcasm again......

 

Yes he is ahead of the curve of where he should be if he only has one year of college yet broke nfl qb records. Oh wow bill polian said he's not, stats says he is though. I like how you don't talk about the failure to build around cam though I guess you don't want to talk about things that goes against your arguments. I'm sure you are correct though plug in rodgers, brady or whoever behind that woeful o-line and receivers and I'm sure they would put up elite stats. They would complete all of their passes too right? And you can use your bad sarcasm as long as you know it's bad.



#79 panthers55

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:20 AM

Yes he is ahead of the curve of where he should be if he only has one year of college yet broke nfl qb records. Oh wow bill polian said he's not, stats says he is though. I like how you don't talk about the failure to build around cam though I guess you don't want to talk about things that goes against your arguments. I'm sure you are correct though plug in rodgers, brady or whoever behind that woeful o-line and receivers and I'm sure they would put up elite stats. They would complete all of their passes too right? And you can use your bad sarcasm as long as you know it's bad.

I don't talk about not building around Cam because I believe we have and continue to. Since 2010 we have drafted just as many offensive guys as we have defensive.  And most of our trades and free agents have gone to the offense not the defense. I think we have great running backs (or did until both Stewart and Barner are hurt) that our receivers are better than advertised and that with the exception of Bell, our line is not that bad. I think that Olsen, Smith and now Ginn are legitimate receivers. I think saying we haven helped him is just another excuse. 

 

Brady, Brees and Peyton have proven over and over that they make the receivers better than they are otherwise and can win with even crappy ones.  I wouldn't even put Cam in the same breath with those other guys right now.



#80 IGSaint

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:27 AM

I don't talk about not building around Cam because I believe we have and continue to. Since 2010 we have drafted just as many offensive guys as we have defensive.  And most of our trades and free agents have gone to the offense not the defense. I think we have great running backs (or did until both Stewart and Barner are hurt) that our receivers are better than advertised and that with the exception of Bell, our line is not that bad. I think that Olsen, Smith and now Ginn are legitimate receivers. I think saying we haven helped him is just another excuse. 

 

Brady, Brees and Peyton have proven over and over that they make the receivers better than they are otherwise and can win with even crappy ones.  I wouldn't even put Cam in the same breath with those other guys right now.

 

Most of the league is not in the same breath with brady, brees, and peyton. It's not a slight against cam to not be mentioned among them. I don't think he will ever be surgical like a brady. As others have said he has more in common with favre then he does brady and there is nothing wrong with that. You can win with that but you have to put the right coaching behind that and so far we haven't done that. Cam gave us the opportunity to win both with seattle and buffalo, it's up to the entire team to come out and take ownership of our wins not just cam. 



#81 PantherFan52

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:35 AM

Last year we saw what a great QB coach can do for a mediocre QB (Harbaugh and Alex Smith). A smart coach who can install confidence in Cam and teach him the things he is doing wrong could make him an MVP. 



#82 TheRed

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:59 AM

I don't talk about not building around Cam because I believe we have and continue to. Since 2010 we have drafted just as many offensive guys as we have defensive. And most of our trades and free agents have gone to the offense not the defense.


We've done a not so great job overall of building around him on the offensive side of the ball. Especially on the OL.

2011:
4th Round - Kealoha Pilares (Wide Receiver) - IR, and likely gone.
6th Round - Zach Williams (Center) - Gone.
7th Round - Lee Ziemba (Tackle) - Gone.

2012:
2nd Round - Amini Silatolu (Guard) - Starter.
4th Round - Joe Adams (Wide Receiver/Returner) - Gone.

2013:
4th Round - Edmund Kugbila (Guard) - IR, out for the year.
6th Round - Kenjon Barner (Running Back) Injured, return unknown.

One starter drafted on the offensive side of the ball since we drafted Cam. That is a damn shame.

We traded for Olsen which was a great move obviously and combined with signing Shockey, paid dividends in Cam's rookie year. Problem is in 2012 we let Shockey walk, and replaced him with Ben Hartsock (so basically nobody).

We picked up Ginn as a return man, and Hixon who was supposed to come in and be the #3 but couldn't even get on the field all training camp/preseason and still can barely do so now. Lafell is failing to stand out so far too.

If this continues then our #2 receiver production wise looks to likely be Greg Olsen again this year.

But hey, keep telling us fairy tales about how much we are building around our franchise QB though P55.

#83 Kurb

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 06:39 AM

P55 is gonna drag me in.....

#84 stirs

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:09 AM

The constant drumbeat of "he broke an NFL record" is ringing hollow in year 3.  Some said that The Golden Calf of Bristol won a playoff game too, but that juice ran out also.

 

Running QB's in college, winners that they might be, will sometimes have trouble transitioning their game to the pros.  Cam had little passing opportunities or attempts in college, so it was with a great deal of faith that we drafted him.  He was a winner, that was his main attribute.  So was Flutie and The Golden Calf of Bristol.  GM's took a leap of faith with them also.

 

Of course drafting him number 1, was more faith than some would have invested, but the first two years looked like we would or could be okay.  Now that defenses have started to take away the things he does well, they have left him with throws that he consistently misses.

 

Besides all the mechanics, he needs to learn to throw the ball away. 2nd and 10 is better than 2nd and 19 because of him holding the ball and taking a sack.  He has a strong enough arm to throw it away for sure.  All QB;s learn to deal with a collapsing pocket.  You see most of them get rid of it before the D is too close to stop them from stepping up.

 

We all said all summer, that this had to be the year that defined Cam.  Maybe it will turn around.  The NFL analysts are talking about him not making the right reads.  GMan said the same thing before last weeks game.  Cam has to make the right reads.  So, no matter what the collective brain trust of the Huddle thinks, former GM's and the current Panthers GM thinks that he has room to improve



#85 panfan32

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:54 AM

Hard to set your feet with poor protection

 

I agree, but He does it even when he has had good protection and time in the pocket. So this is something that cannot be defend at all by anyone. He has admitted it and the coaches that there is an issue here. Last season early on they both spoke of it. So if he and the coaches know, then fix the damn problem or sit his ass down and move on. 

 

Last game he looked like Jake with Happy feet. 

 

And don't get me wrong, I love the guy. He has the skills to be one of the best QB's in the game. But as a football coach myself, its things I see with him and other players that are mental mistakes. And at this level of the game should be easily fixed. If I can get high school and Pee Wee QB's to throw the damn ball properly, than why is it he and the Panthers coaches can't.



#86 fieryprophet

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:07 AM

I think a lot of you must have got smacked in the head with two-by-fours growing up. Cam has 1 game of missing a few more than usual deep throws and everyone nows says "OMG, HE'S NOT EVEN MAKING BASIC THROWS!!!! WTF!!! MECHANIX SUXORS!!!!!"

When you factor in drops he is currently 3/9 on deep passes this year, and yet you all act like that tiny sample size is indicative of anything but your own ignorance.

#87 Snake

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:16 AM

Ugh I'm done with thus topic. Look at any QB beside Brees and Rogers(those guys are machenes ) and you will see the same thing. Yes Cam needs to work on Footwork but that's hard when Mario Williams is draped over you on almost every play.

#88 The_Mango55

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:18 AM

Brady, Brees and Peyton have proven over and over that they make the receivers better than they are otherwise and can win with even crappy ones. I wouldn't even put Cam in the same breath with those other guys right now.


And how much did Brees prove after 2 years, when he was bad enough to get the chargers the first overall pick, which they used on his replacement?

#89 teeray

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:25 AM

Same old bs in this thread.

People want to know why experts are talking about Cam's flaws. It is for a couple of reasons. Most importantly is because we are losing.

Kaepernick, Luck, Dalton, etc. has just as much bad film as Cam or just as many examples of inaccurate throws. But wins begets forgiveness.

Also, some of these experts were critical of anyone drafting Cam before the draft. In order to maintain credibility they are overeager to show examples of them being "right"

Also any throw over 15+ yards is not a basic throw or a pitch and catch situation.

Cam missed Ginn a couple of times throwing down field. So what? As I said in another thread two seasons ago Tom Brady was 1-15 in throws that travelled more than 30 yards.

It is a low percentage throw, thus Cam threw a low completion percentage. Shouldn't be a shock.

Cam is fine. Does that mean he is perfect? No. Does he need to keep trying to improve? Yes. Is he an elite passer? No. Is he as good a passer as 90% of NFL QBs? Yes.

It seems that for some reason many of you guys are holding Cam to a standard that is not likely attainable. You have unrealistic expectations. But this guy is talented and smart and hard working. He is the future of the Panthers so if you don't like him support another team.

#90 MadHatter

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:32 AM

Go away grown people are talking

 

Where?  Because it sure as hell is not in any of your posts.




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