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Are Cam and Rivera adjoined at the hip?


Best Answer DRSundrop, 21 September 2013 - 10:40 AM

I think the message the OP is trying to convey is that Gettleman could possibly view our HC and QB as one. Perhaps the OP is insuating they are linked together as in they may not be here long but I dont think the OP is saying they ARE LINKED together and should GO as some of you are flaming him for.

 

First off, I'm completely for the Carolina Panthers not any one individual on the team. I think Cam is an exceptional QB that is inevitably linked to Rivera but I'm certain Gettleman has the knowledge to assign fault for this teams failures and shortcomings and understands that Newton can be successful in this league.

 

The best comment or question I've seen on our offensive woes was the other day and I don't know who said it so I'm not sure who to give credit to but someone asked "Would you put Manning in a read option offense? ..So why you keep Cam in the pocket?"

 

The main trouble here is that we don't know the root of the problems because we as a fanbase are kept in the dark about the inner workings of this team and can only speculate.

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#121 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:45 PM

Then Gettlemen is a goddammed moron (if that is what he truly thinks).

 

I agree, but I think he is looking at the QB position as the one that makes everyone else better, not the other way around.  Take Peyton Manning.  He had 1 solid WR, a weak line for the most part, and a solid RB with Faulk and James.  He had Clark as a TE, but how much of his success was due to the QB?.  The defense was usually weak.  He made marginal, below average WRs and TEs look great.  Collie?  Garcon?  He had Saturday at C (who was cut early in his career) and never had a LT after Glenn retired. 

 

He won 10 games a year for a decade.

 

Eli and the Giants rarely spend money or high draft picks on an OL.  He had some good players out wide, but had a questionable running game at times.  Cruz was undrafted, Jacobs a 4th rounder, Bradshaw a seventh rounder.  Where was the focus?  On the defense.  Eli has 2 rings.

 

Gettlemen has shown the same philosophy.  I am not sure he wants a QB he has to make better with supporting players and force into a system that he does not think is successful when he has seen success by QB who makes average players better. 

 

Just trying to figure the guy out.



#122 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:45 PM

Then Gettlemen is a goddammed moron (if that is what he truly thinks).

triple post



#123 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:45 PM

Then Gettlemen is a goddammed moron (if that is what he truly thinks).

 

 

Lotta people getting mad, but if you consider Gettlemen's past, his comments (he seems to be true to them) and his actions, it is easy to think he is not interested in developing the offense under Rivera.   It seems plausible that he is saving his resources for next year, when it is possible that he spends the cap room on offense after he gets a new coach.

 

Why so many 1-year contracts?  Money, yes.  But is he waiting to build the foundation in 2014? 

 

Why develop the 10th ranked defense and do very little to change the 25th ranked offense?

 

Take a look at this year's (2014) draft--pretty stacked at WR and QB--there are several pocket passers. 

 

This is making people mad, but the pattern is there.  If you were a GM with a lame duck coach, what would you do?  It makes no sense not to surround Cam with talent?  Why would you protect your franchise QB with Bell and Garry Williams/Scott/Wharton?  Maybe you do not see him as a franchise QB.....

 

Nobody knows.

 



#124 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:46 PM

Then Gettlemen is a goddammed moron (if that is what he truly thinks).

 

I agree, but I think he is looking at the QB position as the one that makes everyone else better, not the other way around.  Take Peyton Manning.  He had 1 solid WR, a weak line for the most part, and a solid RB with Faulk and James.  He had Clark as a TE, but how much of his success was due to the QB?.  The defense was usually weak.  He made marginal, below average WRs and TEs look great.  Collie?  Garcon?  He had Saturday at C (who was cut early in his career) and never had a LT after Glenn retired. 

 

He won 10 games a year for a decade.

 

Eli and the Giants rarely spend money or high draft picks on an OL.  He had some good players out wide, but had a questionable running game at times.  Cruz was undrafted, Jacobs a 4th rounder, Bradshaw a seventh rounder.  Where was the focus?  On the defense.  Eli has 2 rings.

 

Gettlemen has shown the same philosophy.  I am not sure he wants a QB he has to make better with supporting players and force into a system that he does not think is successful when he has seen success by QB who makes average players better. 

 

Just trying to figure the guy out.



#125 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:51 PM

Expecting your QB to start winning while at the same time refusing to upgrade one of the the worst o-lines in Panthers history makes you either a fuging idiot or a disingenuous asshole.
 

 

Polian did it when Peyton was in Indy.  Peyton can read so quickly, blitzing and even stunting puts you at a disadvantage.  He had one of the worst lines in the NFL and was touched the fewest.


Is it possible that Gettlemen is waiting to surround his new coach and new QB with personnel that fit them? 

 

Can you think of a better reason Gettlemen seems to have ignored the offense (besides no money or draft picks)?



#126 TheRed

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:00 PM



 

yasinkas steve reed was there for gettleman's presser where joe "spin doctor" person came up with this whole "it's time for cam to start winning" crap got started.

 

here is a little something that person likes to leave out...context and complete comments, per yas reed.

 

joe person is trying to stir poo up, per usual, and people really bit.

 

is it time to start winning? absolutely.

is he doubting that cam is the guy to lead the franchise? absolutely not.

is he putting it all on cam? absolutely not...unless you are buying what person is trying to spin.

 

moral of the story...don't believe the spin that person tries feeding people. there's always a lot more to the story and a lot that he leaves out because it doesn't create the headlines he wants.

 

EDIT: apparently it was steve reed who wrote the article for the AP which yas put in his blog or something. credit definitely goes to reed, one of a couple class acts like JJ who cover the panthers. 


big props to newb vucifer in pointing that out.

 

 

 

GM confident in Cam Newton

Associated Press





SPARTANBURG, S.C. -- Panthers general manager Dave Gettleman said quarterback Cam Newton is a player he can build the franchise around.

But Gettleman is quick to add "but now it's time to win."

In Gettleman's view, Newton has had the best first two seasons of any QB in NFL history, but said that gets lost on people "because of the elephant in the room, which is his 13-19 record" as a starter.

In two seasons Newton has thrown for 7,920 yards and 40 touchdowns with 29 interceptions. He's also run for 1,447 yards and 22 TDs.

He was named AP Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2011.

Newton's contract runs through the 2014 season and Carolina has an option to pick up another year in 2015. The Panthers would also have the option to use the franchise tag on Newton in 2016 if they haven't reached a long-term agreement prior to that point.

Gettleman said the Panthers are in no hurry to extend Newton's contract right now.

"Technically you have rights to him for six years," Gettleman said. "... I'm a big believer in letting nature take its course. Things will happen naturally."

Newton has taken a good bit of criticism for his leadership ability during his first two seasons, but Gettleman doesn't seem concerned about that.

He believes Newton will mature into an outstanding quarterback and team leader.

"It will take time," Gettleman said. "I'm new and I've made some mistakes, too. I've had days here where I wanted to punch myself. (But) he is bright. He works his fanny off. There's no reason that he can't continue to ascend and I think he will."

On the field, Gettleman said he couldn't be more impressed with Newton, who has dropped about 12 pounds in preparation for this season.

Newton had a rough day on Tuesday, throwing a pair of interceptions during team drills but otherwise has been sharp since practice began last Friday.

Coach Ron Rivera said Newton was late on one throw to the sidelines that was intercepted and didn't make the right read quick enough on another downfield pass resulting in a pick.

"Those are things we need to get corrected," Rivera said.

Gettleman said people need to be patient with Newton and understand that he's only in his third year and it takes time to adjust to playing quarterback in the NFL.

"He's really physically gifted obviously," Gettleman said. "He's gotten better and he keeps improving. What you're looking for is ascension, and he consistently does it. He's had a good training camp. It's a maturation process."

Gettleman, who was hired away from the New York Giants in January, compares Newton to Eli Manning.

Manning was 12-11 in his first two seasons in New York, but didn't win a playoff game until his fourth season when he led the Giants all the way to a Super Bowl championship.

"It was Eli's fourth year and he really came on at playoff time and was a Pro Bowl quarterback," Gettleman said. "So it takes time."

Gettleman also knows that he needs to put the right pieces in place around Newton.

He said that has been a work in progress.

He inherited a team that was more than $16 million over the NFL salary cap. He asked several players with big deals to restructure their contracts and others to take outright pay cuts.

Gettleman said it wasn't an easy task asking established players to take home less money, but said it was something that needed to be done for the team to get where it needs to go.

"Presented properly and being honest, being direct and laying the cards on the table and letting everyone step away and think about it, I think that was the key," Gettleman said of his approach to asking players to reduce their pay. "I'm a very direct person. It's the way I'm built. And I think players appreciate that. I'm honest and direct."

Gettleman also had to make tough decisions to release starting cornerback Chris Gamble and linebacker James Anderson.

Among the players who restructured their deals or took outright pay cuts this offseason included running backs DeAngelo Williamsand Jonathan Stewart, offensive lineman Jordan Gross and Ryan Kalil, tight end Greg Olsen and linebacker Jon Beason.

"It tells me that guys understand the grass isn't always greener," Gettleman said. "This is a heck of an organization. Players are treated top shelf here."

 

http://espn.go.com/n...ence-cam-newton

 

I found the thread and article that sheds more light on that "it's time to win" quote. Thanks to Rayzor.

 

Typical Joe Person journalism.

 

http://www.carolinah...son-is-a-moron/

 



Not sure how expecting your QB to start winning is taken out of context.  Winning is the only context.

 

The second point is not just talk, it is talk from the GM.  And you state what I have been saying the whole time--It is the reality of the situation--not treason to say it.

 



#127 rodeo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:01 PM

Polian did it when Peyton was in Indy.  Peyton can read so quickly, blitzing and even stunting puts you at a disadvantage.  He had one of the worst lines in the NFL and was touched the fewest.

Is it possible that Gettlemen is waiting to surround his new coach and new QB with personnel that fit them? 

 

Can you think of a better reason Gettlemen seems to have ignored the offense (besides no money or draft picks)?

 

Great, so all we need is the greatest QB of all time. Who knew it was so easy!



#128 teeray

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:12 PM

Some people act like Cam has played like hot garbage these last two years.

It would be one thing if I were defending Clausen or a guy like Gabbert.

This guy is averaging over 30 total TDs a season so far.

#129 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:15 PM

Great, so all we need is the greatest QB of all time. Who knew it was so easy!

 

Rodeo, I agree with you, I am just connecting the dots.  Maybe I am totally wrong, but Gettlemen's actions and comments suggest that he is loading his guns to address the offense in 2014.  He simply did not want to do it until he had his coach.  Jerry may have endorsed RR, but I do not think Gettlemen sees him as a legit coach.  I think the neglect of the offense was intentional and obvious.  I am surpirsed others have not seen it.  His intentions seem to be hiding in plain sight.

 

If Gettlemen thought Cam was his franchise QB, wouldn;t he have brought in some OL and better WRs?  Why are we forcing him to become a pocket passer when Gettlemen has expressed his opinion about winning QBs?  This is Cam's audition year, quite possibly. 

 

Did you get the feeling that 80% of his attention was on the defense?  The offense was ranked 25th and he brings in about 10 free agents and drafts offense only in the fourth and sixth rounds?

 

Gettlemen is going to enter 2014 with about $25 million in cap room, a new coach with a new offense, and possibly a slew of draft picks.  Unless Cam turns the corner quickly, I have little doubt that the writing is on the wall--maybe I am wrong, time will tell. 



#130 mav1234

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:15 PM

Some people act like Cam has played like hot garbage these last two years.

It would be one thing if I were defending Clausen or a guy like Gabbert.

This guy is averaging over 30 total TDs a season so far.

 

yet he still hasn't changed his skin color.

 

oops.  i went there.

 

edit: ok.. so no I don't think all of this stuff about Cam is based on racism, but I think that there is some weird undertones going on that I can't figure out.  This is not some shitty quarterback.  Where's the Bradford hate in the national media?  It's not like that dude is winning playoff games either.  Why is Cam getting poo on?

 

Despite the fact that TONS OF PEOPLE poo on him hard before the draft, the fact he did so well in his rookie year means people think that if he isn't dominating the entire fuging league by the time he's 25 he is a flop because, well he's big and strong and hurr he had 40 TDs but can't win the games when it counts or something stupid. the reality is he embarrassed TONS of people by being good because he broke the mold of what you'd "expect" out of a quarterback in a lot of ways (I'll leave that up to each of you to figure out what mold he was breaking exactly, but it's way too simplistic to point it all on race like I did)

 

Cam has legit issues but they seem far more a focus than any other young QB that has done as well as Cam has... so... sup with that?



#131 jarhead

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:19 PM

Lotta people getting mad, but if you consider Gettlemen's past, his comments (he seems to be true to them) and his actions, it is easy to think he is not interested in developing the offense under Rivera.   It seems plausible that he is saving his resources for next year, when it is possible that he spends the cap room on offense after he gets a new coach.

 

Why so many 1-year contracts?  Money, yes.  But is he waiting to build the foundation in 2014? 

 

Why develop the 10th ranked defense and do very little to change the 25th ranked offense?

 

Take a look at this year's (2014) draft--pretty stacked at WR and QB--there are several pocket passers. 

 

This is making people mad, but the pattern is there.  If you were a GM with a lame duck coach, what would you do?  It makes no sense not to surround Cam with talent?  Why would you protect your franchise QB with Bell and Garry Williams/Scott/Wharton?  Maybe you do not see him as a franchise QB.....

 

Nobody knows.

Thank you for jumping in and getting the post on topic. The topic was about Gettemen and his vision of the franchise moving forward. Like you I find it interesting if Cam was his guy why has he done so little to surround him by better talent.

 

Red - You are so lucky to be able to hide behind a computer. In the world that I have spent the last 20 years you would be getting your ass beat on an hourly basis due to your arrogance and lack of social etiquette . 



#132 rodeo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

Rodeo, I agree with you, I am just connecting the dots.  Maybe I am totally wrong, but Gettlemen's actions and comments suggest that he is loading his guns to address the offense in 2014.  He simply did not want to do it until he had his coach.  Jerry may have endorsed RR, but I do not think Gettlemen sees him as a legit coach.  I think the neglect of the offense was intentional and obvious.  I am surpirsed others have not seen it.  His intentions seem to be hiding in plain sight.

 

If Gettlemen thought Cam was his franchise QB, wouldn;t he have brought in some OL and better WRs?  Why are we forcing him to become a pocket passer when Gettlemen has expressed his opinion about winning QBs?  This is Cam's audition year, quite possibly. 

 

Did you get the feeling that 80% of his attention was on the defense?  The offense was ranked 25th and he brings in about 10 free agents and drafts offense only in the fourth and sixth rounds?

 

Gettlemen is going to enter 2014 with about $25 million in cap room, a new coach with a new offense, and possibly a slew of draft picks.  Unless Cam turns the corner quickly, I have little doubt that the writing is on the wall--maybe I am wrong, time will tell. 

 

He's neglected the secondary just as much as he's neglected the offense, though. You could make all these same arguments that maybe Luke isn't his type of MLB. If Gettleman thought Luke was a franchise MLB, wouldn't he be upgrading the secondary backing him up instead of jump bumping Lester from the practice squad and washing his hands of it?

 

See how freaking silly that sounds? It's jumping to a completely illogical conclusion. Obviously Gettleman refusing to upgrade the secondary has nothing to do with his opinion of Luke. Why, then, is this conspiracy theory about Gettleman not upgrading the o-line being because of his opinion of Cam any different?

 

The fact is none of us know why Gettleman is doing what he's doing. It's all guesswork and prognostication. Yet this guesswork comes at the same time as 10 fuging threads on the front page "criticizing" Cam for us being 0-2 as if it's his fault despite all the holes left on the roster.

 

The last time Cam left the field in Buffalo, we were ahead. As I recall, Luke cost us the game. Where are his 10 threads? "Are Rivera and Kuechly adjoined at the hip?"

 

This poo is stupid. This fanbase is stupid.
 



#133 mc52beast

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

Give Cam some competent coaches and DG could sit back and drink margaritas all day long... looking for a change in coaching, not the QB.



#134 TheRed

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:25 PM

Red - You are so lucky to be able to hide behind a computer. In the world that I have spent the last 20 years you would be getting your ass beat on an hourly basis due to your arrogance and lack of social etiquette .


Well we've got a certified internet bad ass here folks. Don't agree with jarhead? He'll threaten to kick your ass.

I'm shaking in my boots big guy. If you can't win the argument, make empty threats. Winning strategy there.

#135 rodeo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:28 PM

Well we've got a certified internet bad ass here folks. Don't agree with jarhead? He'll threaten to kick your ass.

I'm shaking in my boots big guy. If you can't win the argument, make empty threats. Winning strategy there.

 

What the fug did you just fuging say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fug out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fuging words. You think you can get away with saying that poo to me over the Internet? Think again, fuger. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fuging dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little poo. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fuging tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will poo fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fuging dead, kiddo.




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