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With a new coaching staff....could Newton be Josh Freeman'ed?


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#46 Mr. Scot

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:28 PM

True enough. My whole point of this thread is...a new coach will have no loyalty to Cam. He didn't draft him, he has no reason to keep him. He goes from franchise QB to regular joe much like Freeman did. At worst he becomes a scapegoat if things go wrong. Gettleman will have to weigh if he wants the next coach to come with the "I can win with Cam" stipulation or the "I will win at all costs" mantra. I'd rather the latter. Cam Newton is in danger of becoming damaged goods and I worry what the next coaching staff will think of his development.


It's a real possibility.

Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman can both testify to it.

#47 hepcat

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:36 PM

So the concern is that we get a new coach, they don't give Cam a fair shot or maybe they do and it turns out that he still isn't winning here.  I would think at that point we would all know that he isn't going to work out based on his ability to be an NFL QB.  I'm not talking about talent, but rather his actual ability to win games. Most of the Cam defenders blame his problems on Rivera.  It would be very interesting to see how he plays with a new coaching staff which should put the debate to rest once and for all.  I think if it doesn't work out with a new coach the chances of him going elsewhere and succeeding are pretty slim. Minus Drew Brees I can't think of a true "franchise" QB who was shipped off due to performance issues and then did a complete 180 to become an elite player on another team. 

 

Jay Culter, Alex Smith are examples.  Neither were shipped off for performance issues but were shipped off because of either issues with the HC (Cutler), or because another QB emerged and he was no longer needed (Smith).  Neither is an elite player but both are solid.  Cam could be shipped off for either reason depending on the draft and head coach next year.  



#48 BIGH2001

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:43 PM

Jay Culter, Alex Smith are examples.  Neither were shipped off for performance issues but were shipped off because of either issues with the HC (Cutler), or because another QB emerged and he was no longer needed (Smith).  Neither is an elite player but both are solid.  Cam could be shipped off for either reason depending on the draft and head coach next year.  

 

I think it's safe to say that if Cam goes it will be because he isn't winning.  The 49ers went with Alex Smith for 7 seasons and like you said he wasn't benched for performance reasons.  Chicago knew that they were getting a starter in Cutler and Denver got a really bad deal out of that trade but Cutler was still known around the league as starting QB material. If Cam gets to the point where we are willing to throw him away as the number 1 overall pick I think there will be serious questions as to whether he is actually capable of successfully leading an NFL franchise.  The only comparison I can think of where a career was resurrected is Brees. Maybe you could also throw Kurt Warner in there because he bounced around from team to team after he left the Rams until he was finally successful in Arizona.  However, one thing I'm not worried about is the Panthers letting Cam go and then him turning out to be a star somewhere else. I think he's getting too much of a pass from this board at this point. 



#49 hepcat

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:47 PM

I think it's safe to say that if Cam goes it will be because he isn't winning.  The 49ers went with Alex Smith for 7 seasons and like you said he wasn't benched for performance reasons.  Chicago knew that they were getting a starter in Cutler and Denver got a really bad deal out of that trade but Cutler was still known around the league as starting QB material. If Cam gets to the point where we are willing to throw him away as the number 1 overall pick I think there will be serious questions as to whether he is actually capable of successfully leading an NFL franchise.  The only comparison I can think of where a career was resurrected is Brees. Maybe you could also throw Kurt Warner in there because he bounced around from team to team after he left the Rams until he was finally successful in Arizona.  However, one thing I'm not worried about is the Panthers letting Cam go and then him turning out to be a start somewhere else. I think he's getting too much of a pass from this board and there are serious questions in my mind about his ability to be a starting QB in the NFL.

 

Brees wasn't let go because of performance reasons.  He was successful in San Diego.  They drafted Phillip Rivers in 2004 because Brees was struggling.  Then all of a sudden he exploded in 2004 and the Chargers went 12-4.  He had an average year in 2005 and the Chargers finished 9-7.  He tore up his shoulder in the final game of 2005, and the Chargers decided to move on to Phillip Rivers.  The shoulder thing was also the main reason Miami passed on him over Daunte Culpepper.  So I'd say injury paired with the fact they drafted his replacement already was the reason he was let go...not performance.

 

If Cam is let go, it'll either be because of a) injury, b ) his replacement is drafted or the worst case scenario c) he doesn't play nice with the new head coach.



#50 thefuzz

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:51 PM

It's a real possibility.

Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman can both testify to it.

 

 

No doubt.

 

There are also "work" issues as well.

 

I honestly have no clue about this, but is Cam a first in, last out guy?  It's something that if it was discussed, I could have missed it.

 

And for all you homers/haters calm down, I am not inferring anything.

 

Favre and Romo had those knocks on them early in their careers.



#51 BIGH2001

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:53 PM

Well they didn't draft his replacement because he was playing great football.  He did have the 12-4 year but everything else was 9-7 or 8-8 and then there was the year he got replaced by Doug Flutie when Flutie was like 40 years old.

 

 

Brees wasn't let go because of performance reasons.  He was successful in San Diego.  They drafted Phillip Rivers in 2004 because Brees was struggling.  Then all of a sudden he exploded in 2004 and the Chargers went 12-4.  He had an average year in 2005 and the Chargers finished 9-7.  He tore up his shoulder in the final game of 2005, and the Chargers decided to move on to Phillip Rivers.  The shoulder thing was also the main reason Miami passed on him over Daunte Culpepper.  So I'd say injury paired with the fact they drafted his replacement already was the reason he was let go...not performance.

 

If Cam is let go, it'll either be because of a) injury, b ) his replacement is drafted or the worst case scenario c) he doesn't play nice with the new head coach.

 



#52 hepcat

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:58 PM

No doubt.

 

There are also "work" issues as well.

 

I honestly have no clue about this, but is Cam a first in, last out guy?  It's something that if it was discussed, I could have missed it.

 

And for all you homers/haters calm down, I am not inferring anything.

 

Favre and Romo had those knocks on them early in their careers.

 

From what I've heard, Cam comes in on his off days and puts in the extra work.  But the quality of that work can always be questioned.  It's quality over quantity for me...if you work too hard and put in the wrong kind of work, it's actually going to hurt you.  With this coaching staff, who the hell knows.  



#53 hepcat

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:02 PM

Well they didn't draft his replacement because he was playing great football.  He did have the 12-4 year but everything else was 9-7 or 8-8 and then there was the year he got replaced by Doug Flutie when Flutie was like 40 years old.

 

No it's definitely true that Brees struggled early in his career in San Diego but he turned it around in his fourth year.  Was that because the team drafted Phillip Rivers and he had a fire lit under him?  Definitely possible. Cam Newton definitely had the chance to turn it around up until this year...but he won't end up a winner under Rivera's coaching staff.  



#54 thefuzz

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:03 PM

From what I've heard, Cam comes in on his off days and puts in the extra work.  But the quality of that work can always be questioned.  It's quality over quantity for me...if you work too hard and put in the wrong kind of work, it's actually going to hurt you.  With this coaching staff, who the hell knows.  

 

 

 

Agreed, I have always had a bit of an issue with who we have here backing up Cam, and watching tape with him.

 

Would have loved to have a Matt Hasselbeck or Chad Pennington type player in there to help Cam out some.



#55 Argus Plexus

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:05 PM

If they got rid of Cam Newton this would officially be the dumbest franchise since Al Davis. I might lose all hope for this team and stop watching if that happens. 



#56 hepcat

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:06 PM

Agreed, I have always had a bit of an issue with who we have here backing up Cam, and watching tape with him.

 

Would have loved to have a Matt Hasselbeck or Chad Pennington type player in there to help Cam out some.

 

Definitely would have been a positive.  They brought in Anderson to kind of be that guy but he doesn't seem like the kind of veteran I'd want my young QB learning from.  In 2010, didn't he get caught laughing on the sideline with a teammate during a horrible blowout?  Then at the press conference had his desire for the game questioned and he got really mad and went on a rant?  Yea, definitely a professional dude your young QB should learn from.  

 

Desire to win and be great doesn't seem like an issue with Cam, but the people he has been learning from don't seem to be putting the right tools in front of him to be successful.  I honestly think that comes from being too high on Cam.  You've gotta remember, he bounced around through so many college programs that he's barely had time to learn the intricacies of an offense.  I'm sure he never learned how to fine tune an offense like say, Andrew Luck did in college.



#57 General_Purr

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 05:36 PM

we need added leaders, not losing people on the current team. what vet experience leaders do we have? Thomas Davis, Steve Smith, Khalil, Wharton? Thats pretty much it. We need a hype man




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