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CBS Sports: "Cam Newton or Russell Wilson?" [Video]


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#61 Krucid

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:19 AM

You could argue that RW is just as good as Cam. I have no problem with somebody saying they would rather have RW. No need in getting our panties in a bunch.

 

Wilson is a great QB. However stating that he can do what cam does is ignorant at best. Also, to the fact he was damn near discrediting Cams ability.

 

Fug Boomer.



#62 FootballMaestro

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:20 AM

I think Wilson came into the NFL more equiped to be a "leader of men".  Wilson had 5 years of major college football under his belt by the time he came into the league.  He had been through adversity on the field and knew how to communicate with his teammates in a constructive way.

 

It was a learning experience for Cam coming in to the league.  Thomas Davis had to get on Cam last season because he would always work out alone, away from his teammates.  He would be aloof with his head phones on in the locker room.  Steve Smith callled him out publicly for his body language. 

 

Cam didn't have the luxury of 4-5 years of college to learn how to be a great teammate.  It speaks to the type of person Cam is that he took a hard look at himself and was able to mature into a legitimate leader on this team.

 

 

All this to say, RW came into the league more "pro-ready". Cam needed to go through some hard times to become a better teammate and field general.  But Boomer is totally baseless to say that RW is more mature now. 

I hear ya.

 

Nonetheless, don't think anything Cam experienced last year was out of the ordinary for a young, very talented player.

 

You also have to keep in mind, Wilson was trying to win a job, while Cam was the number one pick. Wilson had to do everything perfectly if he wanted to play. Shoot, if they would have asked Wilson to scrub the bathrooms and the other players jock straps, he probably would have. Lol

 

My point was: Once you get past the media bluster, you'll notice Cam always had a strong work ethic, never threw his teammates, coaches or the media (though they deserved it) underneath the bus, etc.. Despite all this, Boomer tried to insinuate that Cam was selfish. That's just not true. We have to separate the personality from the reality. 

 

No one saying Cam is/was perfect. But that doesn't mean his work ethic, professionalism, and dedication needed to be routinely questioned and overtly scrutinized. Everybody needs improvement somewhere. So did Cam. And it appeared many media and Huddler's were routinely searching for anything to say "Cam needs to improve", though it was part of a normal progression many others had experienced. And I'm not sure if that Thomas Davis reference (if I remember correctly), wasn't a joke? 

 

Note: You didn't hear much in the major media regarding Kaepernick and RG3, though both of those guys were major head cases going back to their first or second seasons. 

 

Cam has been a target from day one, with most of the off the field criticism I find more myth, than reality. 



#63 The Huddler

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:22 AM

you guys know espn would be boring if there was a group consensus on every issue, right? don't think the network doesn't know this and doesn't assign opinions to people to keep controversy high.

 

case in point: skip bayless

 

In this particular video, they seem genuinely aggravated with one another to me. Maybe that's where they hook and reel me in. Brainwash.



#64 Chaos

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:37 AM

Wow, just got around to watching the video.  That was barely considered a debate, what it was more like was a bunch a rational guys breaking down a hater.  He eventually got away from stats or any other lucid argument, and went straight to character traits which were unfounded and completely idiotic. 

 

They all about laughed him off that stage.  What a grumbly old piss drinker.



#65 SZ James

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:44 AM

can you maybe elaborate on IQ?

seems to me Cam's football iq has progressed and I havent really seen RW displayed so much that it would be something to compare to Cam's. I havent watched all of their games but from what i have seen. RW just makes things happen when you dont think it is possible, a la Cam. It's not so much IQ though.


There's no websters or concrete criteria on what defines football IQ. It's just a cliche.

I understand it as the way RW compensates for whatever he lacks in the athletic department to stay in the conversation with players that tower over him and and can throw it farther and so on. Obviously he has something that makes him as good as the top Qbs, so I put that something under the IQ umbrella.

#66 TheRumGone

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:48 AM

There's no websters or concrete criteria on what defines football IQ. It's just a cliche.

I understand it as the way RW compensates for whatever he lacks in the athletic department to stay in the conversation with players that tower over him and and can throw it farther and so on. Obviously he has something that makes him as good as the top Qbs, so I put that something under the IQ umbrella.

 

ah. i don't. i think that is just his athleticism. but i get what you are saying.

 

people forget that even though hes a smaller qb, he is insanely athletic and him being a shortstop/ 2nd baseman has helped him in that department as well.  him being smaller has helped him in some regards with scrambling, but hurt him in seeing lanes because like you said people tower over him.

 

he is insanely athletic, just not on Cam's level.
 



#67 FootballMaestro

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:50 AM

There's no websters or concrete criteria on what defines football IQ. It's just a cliche.

I understand it as the way RW compensates for whatever he lacks in the athletic department to stay in the conversation with players that tower over him and and can throw it farther and so on. Obviously he has something that makes him as good as the top Qbs, so I put that something under the IQ umbrella.

It's called, Marshall Lynch, His Defense, his coaching, and the fact that the Seahawks don't have to rely on him to win games.

 

Put Wilson on the Panthers Cam's first two years, and I think he'd struggle. 

 

Yes, Cam's defense and coaching have now reached a level we can count on (we hope). But Cam  still lacks a reliable run game and play making receivers (like in Seattle), thus is still routinely relied upon to make big plays (whether he's playing well up to that point or not).

 

Wilson's now a play maker as well. However, he just doesn't carry the pressure and responsibility to win games Cam has/does. Just saying (and I really like Wilson).  



#68 TheRumGone

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:55 AM

It's called, Marshall Lynch, His Defense, his coaching, and the fact that the Seahawks don't have to rely on him to win games.

 

Put Wilson on the Panthers Cam's first two years, and I think he'd struggle. 

 

Yes, Cam's defense and coaching have now reached a level we can count on (we hope), but he still lacks a run game and play making receivers (like in Seattle), thus is still routinely relied upon to make big plays (whether he's playing well up to that point or not).

 

Wilson's now a play maker as well. However, he just doesn't carry the pressure and responsibility to win that Cam has/does. Just saying (and I really like Wilson).  

 

RW has carried the pressure to win, not as much as Cam. but wilson has been relied upon to make things happen to win games.



#69 SZ James

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:58 AM

It's called, Marshall Lynch, His Defense, his coaching, and the fact that the Seahawks don't have to rely on him to win games.

Put Wilson on the Panthers Cam's first two years, and I think he'd struggle.

Yes, Cam's defense and coaching have now reached a level we can count on (we hope). But Cam still lacks a reliable run game and play making receivers (like in Seattle), thus is still routinely relied upon to make big plays (whether he's playing well up to that point or not).

Wilson's now a play maker as well. However, he just doesn't carry the pressure and responsibility to win games Cam has/does. Just saying (and I really like Wilson).


I'm pretty sure I already debunked this weeks ago, probably the same poster too.

These guys are consistently good no matter what team you put them on, they will find a way to have good stats. They just won't win as many games in the end, the only difference.

#70 *FreeFua*

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:58 AM

I wish boomer would have shut up so I could have heard the other guys praise Newton some more.

#71 bonafidebanter

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:00 PM

Wow, the hate that this man has for Cam is not rare. Lots of "national" media folk spit the same dislike for Cam. Terry Bradshaw comes to mind. I've come to terms that nationally Cam isn't EVER going to get the respect that he deserves because of "reasons". What I've noticed during this 8 game win streak is the common, "I need to see more........" At first, Cam needed to win 4 in a row.....Then it was, "during this win streak, they haven't really beaten anyone....." but bashing ALL OF THEM. Then, it was, "We'll see about Cam during this three games stretch with the Falcons, Forty Whiners, and the Brats. After the Panthers win those three games to make it 4, 5, 6, in a row they STILL NEED TO SEE MORE?? What more do you need?? Haters, I tell you. Hatin won't get you anywhere. 



#72 Servant of Cthululelei

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:01 PM

they are two different kinds of qb's even tho people see throwing qb that can run.

 

Cam is just on another level athletically. nobody in the league at the qb position can do the superman dive. no qb in theleague can juke three defenders in the pocket the way Cam did against ATL and make a 20 yard pass on a rocket shot.

 

RW is very good. Cam is special.

 

Remember the ridiculous 3rd and 12 that Russell Wilson converted against us on their only TD scoring drive in the season opener?  He was nearly sacked twice but he managed to escape, and while running BACKWARDS, he launches what had become a 25+ yard pass and places it right on the side line at the sticks where only his receiver could get it.  Plays like that obviously have a little bit of luck involved, just like Cam's scramble against ATL, but they also require special players to pull off.

 

Cam is special.  Russell Wilson is special too.  I'd still take my guy, though.  But it's not like it's some completely insane notion that there are some people out there who would take Russell.



#73 bonafidebanter

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:02 PM

I wish boomer would have shut up so I could have heard the other guys praise Newton some more.

 

I notice that as well. I'm like, "Shut up, we've heard your BS, now let the experts tell us what we know about Cam!!". 



#74 Donald LaFell

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:03 PM

I wouldn't blame anybody for taking Luck or Wilson over Cam, but not for the reasons Boomer mentioned. 



#75 FootballMaestro

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:10 PM

I'm pretty sure I already debunked this weeks ago, probably the same poster too.

These guys are consistently good no matter what team you put them on, they will find a way to have good stats. They just won't win as many games in the end, the only difference.

No it wasn't me. 

 

But you do realize, that there were many QB's like Drew Brees, Steve Young, etc.., (who rode the bench, and/or had to get traded) on/from one team before they achieved success. So you see it as 'they eventually are good'. While others see it, as 'they have to be in the right system'. That's well known. So now you're going to tell us, 'Alex Smith is now good'. And if he is, he wasn't earlier in his career, and/or needed the proper system?

 

And it was clear that Wilson was a game manager his first ten NFL games, and wasn't ready. And that was with good coaching, defense and a run game to rely on. It's the same with Griffin and Kaepernick. If you would have placed either of those two on the Panthers--Cam's first two years, I don't think they have the same success as Cam (especially in conventional alignments), until the offense was tailored to them. 

 

No ones saying Wilson's not any good now. But I think Cam's size and pocket presence, combined with his similar QB skills, travels better from team to team than Wilson (though he's good). That's really the take away. 




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