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#1 Disinfranchised

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 02:23 PM

If you are sworn to uphold the law, does it void your oath if the law is changed?  If you have sworn to deffend the constitution do you smite the ones that poo upon it?

 



#2 Anybodyhome

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 02:55 PM

"I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

 

This is the military oath of enlistment. Nowhere does it mention upholding any laws. It does say you will obey the orders of the President/Commander in Chief and the officers appointed over you.

 

Now, you are required to follow all "lawful" orders and you can go to jail for disobeying lawful orders. There have been countless individuals who found themselves in hot water because they refused to carry out an order they perceived to be unlawful. This is why they get in trouble- it is not up to the individual carrying out the orders to question said orders before carrying them out. You must first carry out the order and then report your misgivings and concerns to the next superior in the chain of command. Simply refusing to carry out an order just because you think it's "unlawful" will certainly land you in front of the man for refusing to obey a direct order (issued by a commissioned officer) or a lawful order (issued by a senior enlisted person).



#3 The Pieyed Piper

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:08 PM

Is this about weed laws?



#4 cookinwithgas

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:16 PM

The only lawful orders come from a Republican non Kenyan president duh

#5 venom

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HUDDLER

Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:25 PM

"I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

 

This is the military oath of enlistment. Nowhere does it mention upholding any laws. It does say you will obey the orders of the President/Commander in Chief and the officers appointed over you.

 

Now, you are required to follow all "lawful" orders and you can go to jail for disobeying lawful orders. There have been countless individuals who found themselves in hot water because they refused to carry out an order they perceived to be unlawful. This is why they get in trouble- it is not up to the individual carrying out the orders to question said orders before carrying them out. You must first carry out the order and then report your misgivings and concerns to the next superior in the chain of command. Simply refusing to carry out an order just because you think it's "unlawful" will certainly land you in front of the man for refusing to obey a direct order (issued by a commissioned officer) or a lawful order (issued by a senior enlisted person).

 

Talk about robotic...

 



#6 Chimera

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:30 PM

"I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

This is the military oath of enlistment. Nowhere does it mention upholding any laws. It does say you will obey the orders of the President/Commander in Chief and the officers appointed over you.

Now, you are required to follow all "lawful" orders and you can go to jail for disobeying lawful orders. There have been countless individuals who found themselves in hot water because they refused to carry out an order they perceived to be unlawful. This is why they get in trouble- it is not up to the individual carrying out the orders to question said orders before carrying them out. You must first carry out the order and then report your misgivings and concerns to the next superior in the chain of command. Simply refusing to carry out an order just because you think it's "unlawful" will certainly land you in front of the man for refusing to obey a direct order (issued by a commissioned officer) or a lawful order (issued by a senior enlisted person).


no, no, no

that's the backwards old school thinking that caused so many war crimes in the first days of Iraq/Afghanistan.
It is your duty to disobey unlawful orders, then report them. The Nuremberg defense is not valid.

#7 Anybodyhome

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:13 PM

no, no, no

that's the backwards old school thinking that caused so many war crimes in the first days of Iraq/Afghanistan.
It is your duty to disobey unlawful orders, then report them. The Nuremberg defense is not valid.

 

I sure hope that's just sarcasm I'm missing....

 

"It is your duty to disobey unlawful orders..."

It is not your decision whether an order by your superior is lawful or not. That decision is made by the superiors of the person issuing the orders once the original order is reported as possibly being unlawful.

 

 

 



#8 Disinfranchised

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:31 PM

Is this about weed laws?

 

Amoung others.  Well, thanks for the insights. Oath dont mean poo now. That's what i am getting here. No respect for any such oaths to his country.  Don't make a poo anyway.  We gonna do what we gonna do. Yea, yea, I know you boys watchin obama.  *** u. A thousands post on a thousand message boards.



#9 Chimera

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:59 PM

I sure hope that's just sarcasm I'm missing....

"It is your duty to disobey unlawful orders..."
It is not your decision whether an order by your superior is lawful or not. That decision is made by the superiors of the person issuing the orders once the original order is reported as possibly being unlawful.

maybe in the navy, where swabbing the deck as hardcore of an order there is...

But in land warfare, when your comrades' and civilians' lives are on the line, you are required to ignore unlawful orders.

"I was just following orders" is not, and never has been, a valid alibi.

#10 Anybodyhome

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HUDDLER

Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:08 AM

maybe in the navy, where swabbing the deck as hardcore of an order there is...

But in land warfare, when your comrades' and civilians' lives are on the line, you are required to ignore unlawful orders.

"I was just following orders" is not, and never has been, a Ivalid alibi.

 

I'm pretty sure just by reading this you've obviously never served.

 

The oath of enlistment quoted above and Uniform Code of Military Justice applies to all services, there isn't a separate version for each branch of service.
 

"I was just following orders" is not, and never has been, a valid alibi."

Has been a very valid alibi in countless cases where it was determined the orders were unlawful. The many soldiers who took part in the My Lai massacre in Viet Nam were not convicted of any charges, but two of the three principals issuing the orders were is but one of the  more famous cases in recent history.

 

"maybe in the navy, where swabbing the deck as hardcore of an order there is..."

Yeah, tell that to the pilots and aircrews on carriers, SEAL Teams, SAR crews, etc. You obviously have no fugging clue.




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