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fieryprophet

Member Since 15 Dec 2008
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#2388122 Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

Posted by fieryprophet on 19 September 2013 - 08:37 AM

Yep...same old bullshit.

Experts are noticing glaring flaws in Cam's game that a 3rd year QB should not be making....and the Cam apoplogists are out blaming everyone but Cam.

Yep...same old bullshit.


If that's the impression that you got from this discussion then you came into this thread with an agenda and have stuck to it in the face of all contrary evidence.


#2388091 Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

Posted by fieryprophet on 19 September 2013 - 08:07 AM

I think a lot of you must have got smacked in the head with two-by-fours growing up. Cam has 1 game of missing a few more than usual deep throws and everyone nows says "OMG, HE'S NOT EVEN MAKING BASIC THROWS!!!! WTF!!! MECHANIX SUXORS!!!!!"

When you factor in drops he is currently 3/9 on deep passes this year, and yet you all act like that tiny sample size is indicative of anything but your own ignorance.


#2387931 PFF Looks At Final Play (And Blames Norman)

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 11:26 PM

Hardy has disappeared.
Olsen is as good as we thought he would be, not better.
Gamble, no comment.
Johnson, I will give you.
Kuechly, not buying it, he got better with position change, not coaching.
Star, previously projected #1 doing well? Kind of expected.

Me and you 'till the end FP but I want to see discernible improvement, not improvement that can be possibly attributed to a human being being one year older.

I will let it go, you win.

Rivera and staff are doing well. I just don't see it.


The one area I'm really wondering where the heck the coaching staff has been is the offensive line. Bell took a small step forward last year but has looked almost as bad as his rookie self this year. Silatolu made strides late last season and now seems to have fallen off, Gross has continued to decline (to be expected with age) and Hangartner was a weak link that got cut and now is probably being begged to return. I can understand the secondary being abysmal because the talent back there is just not on par with the rest of the league, and as a whole the front seven has improved from its atrocious state in 2011 (even if a lot can be attributed to talent and not coaching) but the offensive line just seems to have dissipated.


#2387927 Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 11:19 PM

Cosell is a great film buff but I don't know that he knows more about quarterback mechanics that Miller who played QB.
Even then Cosell said this about Cam in the middle of last year.

Here is what Cosell said after watching Cam against Buffalo.

http://charlotte.cbs...on-quarterback/


And Cosell is absolutely correct. Which is the whole point on the emphasis on having Cam play more from the pocket. You don't become a more precise quarterback by running around all the time, you do it by making throws downfield.

What you are saying is that Cam hasn't progressed at all from his rookie year or not as far as you would think he should. What I am saying is that your expectations are not realistic even for an elite QB like Peyton, whose mechanics still elude him from time to time, particularly on unscripted throws where he's not working from muscle memory. And you're not recognizing the reality that's Cam has actually made huge strides compared to his rookie season, even if he has occasional lapses into the playground-style of play that both hinders him but also makes him special. It's not that we should try to shoehorn Cam into a Peyton Manning type of passer, but that we don't hold him back from his full potential by letting him run around like Brett Favre and rely on sheer talent to make plays. But 2013 Cam can actually take a seven-step dropback without looking like the flailing gazelle that embodied 2011 Cam, and will look off a safety or give a little pump fake before targeting the other half of the field, and not sidearm passes for no good reason. There's ample progress, he just goes through phases of growth and mild regression, and the Buffalo game over-accentuated it because he was being asked to go deep too often, as if a team can really split deep balls between two separate games to make up for the lack of downfield throws the week before. The indecisiveness I'm seeing from Cam right now seems driven more by the fact that he is trying to avoid mistakes (and therefore leading him open to getting read by defenders like Alonso did) than an inability to read the play. As he loosens up and gets more comfortable with the new scheme I think he'll do very well.


#2387917 PFF Looks At Final Play (And Blames Norman)

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 11:00 PM

Aristotle he ain't, I will agree. My whole point was, where is the progression? Where is the evidence of any coaching whatsoever? Where is the progression on this team at any position?

Name any player at any position that appears to have progressed because of coaching on this team during the Rivera era AND BEFORE YOU GUYS GET ON THAT BANDWAGON, Kuechly progressed because he was "forced" into his natural position. Coaching has nothing to do with Kuechly.

Every player we have is treading water or regressing. No one appears to be making strides and that includes the WR Corps so I will also step on the toes of our sacred cow, Mr. Proehl also.

Coaches...........do your damn job! For most of you, you waited too late.

Hopefully Morrison and Gettleman can fix this moving forward.

Sorry.

//rant over


Hardy (even though he has been MIA of late) definitely progressed under Rivera. Olsen is playing better than he ever did with the Bears. Gamble had one of his best seasons in 2011 under Rivera. Johnson posted his best season under Rivera. And it's not fair to separate Kuechly from the coaching when the whole defensive scheme has been built around him since he made the move to MLB. And Star has shown almost none of the typical rookie struggles, which is almost unheard of for a DT. And I wouldn't say that Cam has regressed so much as he has been put into a system that may hold him back initially but allow him to succeed better long-term if it can instill more consistent habits. Everyone here may dislike the new "pocket passer" Cam but the fact is that the game will always be played first and foremost from the pocket, so he must acclimate himself to it.


#2387908 Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 10:50 PM

in this thread: Cam apologists.


More like "realists" but whatevs.


#2387904 Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 10:47 PM

Kirwin is not the expert on quarterbacks, he focuses on what he knows which is being a GM, the cap, play calls, Xs and Os and overall dynamics of the team but I am sure you know that if you talked to him. When Tim Ryan was there he deferred to him on line issues and specifics on player technique which was Ryan's specialty. He defers to Miller on quarterback specifics such as we are talking about. It doesn't mean Pat doesn't understand those things simply that he tries and stays within his areas of expertise.

I have never said he couldn't have good mechanics or was unable to read defenses simply that he still struggles with basics which he should have mastered long ago. As to why he hasn't, I haven't a clue.


Your first indication that you really don't understand quarterbacking is with the statement "should have mastered long ago." No one "masters" quarterback play. Hell, watch Peyton Manning, after his many years in the league, throw a brain dead pass right to a defender in last year's Denver playoff loss that basically killed their season. QBs are constantly making poor decisions, misreading coverages, throwing off their back foot, overthrowing and underthrowing receivers, etc. The best simply limit their mistakes to a minimum, and this is a process that takes lots of time and practice. I get immensely frustrated at Cam's poor footwork but I would be really worried if he never had another bad dropback again because that would mean he was paying more attention to his feet than the actual play. It's always going to be a cyclical process, and as long as he continues to steadily improve (and so far he's really seemed to make strides in cutting down on his spates of turnovers) than he'll be fine.


#2387879 Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 10:26 PM

Again why so defensive. Sure he sometimes anticipates receivers but the knock on him since the combine is that he has always struggled to anticipate where receivers would be and waited to throw to them once they get open.

Besides this is not my analysis but guys like Miller and Kirwin who watch film and analyze players all the time. In fact Kirwin has written a book called take your eye off the ball. A very good ball many here could benefit from immensely.


I own the book, and have talked with Kirwan on several occasions. He was worried about Cam's play not because he doesn't feel Cam couldn't do these things but because he's worried the offensive struggles are affecting other areas of Cam's game because he's focusing too much on his decision-making at the expense of reaction.


#2387866 Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan on Cam

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 10:15 PM

What part? That he doesn't hold the ball longer than any other quarterback? That was a fact in 2012. Doubt it has changed. That he doesn't throw off his back foot sometimes even when not pressured? Watch him. He uses mostly arm and will often throw without moving his feet or stepping into the throw at all. That he holds the ball until he feels pressured forcing him to throw off his back foot? That seems self evident.

Truth is that he is slow to recognize defenses and has trouble knowing where to throw it until the receiver is wide open.


Every claim you have made is incongruent with the most basic of film study. Does he have struggles of some sort from play to play? Yes. But it's not always and a lot of times it's a miracle he can even make the plays he does make.


#2387861 PFF Looks At Final Play (And Blames Norman)

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 10:10 PM

Why take a timeout and give the Bills free time to decide on a play when they're the ones playing against the clock? And how are the coaches supposed to know that Norman didn't understand what Moore clearly indicated to him? It was only after the game was over that Norman claimed to have not gotten a signal while the rest of the defense was like "WTF, you were right there!"


#2387834 PFF Looks At Final Play (And Blames Norman)

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 09:52 PM

https://www.profootb...ebook-week-2-2/

Slot corner D.J. Moore recognized the Bills were likely to run a smash concept with the two receivers to that side, sending the outside receiver on a slant and the inside guy on a corner route. He desperately signaled to RCB Josh Norman to switch if the receivers cross. Instead of each tracking their man on their respective patterns, if the receivers cross the corners would switch assignments and track the incoming man, putting them ahead of the play and not trailing it — something vital in these tight quarters down by the end zone.


So, to illustrate why Norman hasn't been starting despite his preseason showing, it's apparent that he is still struggling to understand situational coverages. While some here will blame coaching for him failing to recognize the obvious, notice that DJ Moore, who is a newcomer to the Panthers defense, knew exactly what was going on.


#2387796 I'm hearing RIvera is out if we lose Sunday.

Posted by fieryprophet on 18 September 2013 - 09:28 PM

I'm gonna laugh my ass off when we beat the Giants handily, because if there's one thing Rivera has shown, it's that he has nine lives when it comes to his own job. Then the Huddle will melt down like never before after a win.


#2385693 How will the Panthers lose the game this week?

Posted by fieryprophet on 17 September 2013 - 05:49 PM

We're going to win.


#2385551 Interesting Danny Morrison anecdote

Posted by fieryprophet on 17 September 2013 - 04:49 PM

Here's a challenge for you...

Ask the Huddle for suggestions on how to do your job. Make it a condition that in order to offer suggestions, the person has to have zero experience doing what you do.

Let me know how it goes.


Substantive logic is a rare breed on the Huddle right now.


#2383306 The Last Buffalo Drive

Posted by fieryprophet on 16 September 2013 - 04:33 PM

Bills 1st and 10 at the Panthers 46 with 46 seconds... Manuel checks down to Jackson and is hit hard by Thomas Davis knocking the ball loose. Why was that play not reviewed or challenged? With 2 timeouts and the clock stopped, seems like a good chance to at least stop the momentum.

Then on the last play, obviously there was a mixup in coverage before the final snap, why wouldn't you call a timeout... the clock was stopped both of these times, so you're not benefitting the opponent.


Can't challenge after the two minute warning. The idiots upstairs didn't buzz the officials.