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Member Since 22 Oct 2012
Offline Last Active May 26 2014 12:24 AM

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In Topic: Cam's new weapons

25 May 2014 - 11:01 PM

I would rather look at the sum of the parts brought in VS. last year.  


KB13+Cotchery+Avant+Underwood+Olsen+Dickson+Williams  >  Smitty+LaFell+Ginn+Hixon+Olsen+Hartsock+Williams


2014 OL < 2013 OL


For me, the OL is going to have an affect on Cam, but I think this group of receivers better fits him and with a much better energy.  Time for Cam to lead.


Just no. Time for our front seven that we just dump all of our resources in to continue to lead.


Cam will lead when the Panthers give him the weapons to lead.

In Topic: Manziel Not Impressing

24 May 2014 - 11:25 AM

It's as simple as you make it. 


There's coaching, teammates, OC coordinator, Offensive line, etc., than can effect a games outcome and player success. 


All I'll say is this: Place Wilson, RG3 and Kaepernick on the Panthers his first two years, and I think those guys get benched. They certainly wouldn't have put up Cam's numbers, especially in that type of vertical threat, big play offense Chud ran. 


Place, Wilson, Kaepernick and RG3 on Indiana or Miami their first two years, and let's see how they would have done. 


Don't you understand, Kaepernick and Wilson walked into great situations??


PS: Yes, Brady wasn't the same passer his first few seasons as a starter (another guy drafted in  a great situation) as he is now. However, it remains to be seen, if Wilson and Kaepernick will progress the way Brady did (who I will acknowledge, needs great protection or quick throw offense to excel). 


I know your stance on Kaepernick, so I will just repeat that I respectfully disagree.


And I told you this before: The 49ers feel EXACTLY the same way about Newton as you do about Kaepernick.


You would could never dream of Newton not doing as great as Kaepernick in SF if the situations were reverse. The people of 49ers disagree. They think Newton would completely flame out in 49er gear. Whereas, they think that Kaepernick would do quite well in Carolina---at least better than Newton has done.


Which is fine. Your a Panthers fan, it makes sense. However, (and you indicated this) I have NO idea why everyone-everywhere-in every fanbase thinks that Luck would be an upgrade over any other young QB (sometimes including their own--yes there are Panthers fans that would choose Luck over Newton).

In Topic: Manziel Not Impressing

24 May 2014 - 10:49 AM

Yeah, but what you're forgetting is, Seattle's and Francisco's offense is predicated off of their running, NOT THEIR PASSING GAMES. 


So most of the success that those guy will have, is because of the threat of their running games. 


Take Marshall Lynch and Frank Gore off those teams, then see how well those guys will throw when it's a staple of their offense?


Remember, despite what you said. Both Seattle and San Fran ran the ball much more than they threw. They're running teams, not passing ones. 


And it is/was clear, that both Kaepernick and Wilson were spoon fed along their first NFL seasons, by heavily relying on their running games, and utilizing many quick throws to offset their lack of reading defenses and responding to pass rushes. 


Not saying Wilson hasn't progressed and gotten better. He has. However, they're are many things which he doesn't have to carry the burden with in Seattle. Kaepernick's even worse. At least Wilson can scramble and buy time, then hit a receiver (albeit with a circus catch). RG3 and Kaepernick, usually bolts in that type situation. 


Yes, Luck is over rated indeed. However, it's usually the case, 'the more you throw, the worse your percentages are (especially if you're losing big)'. As I stated, it doesn't happen with Kaep and Wilson as much, cause they have cushy run games, offensive lines and defenses to rely on. And how often, were those guys ever behind big in games?


It doesn't matter what their offense are predicated off of. The fact of the matter is both Wilson and Kaepernick...when asked or required to throw the ball more--whether by game plan or in-game circumstances...generally arises to the occasion.


One could argue that their better days are days in which the running attack is LESS featured in their respective offenses.


And Minnesota's offense is predicated off of the running game. It doesn't stop their passing attack, when needed or required or desired, from being mediocre at best.


Young Brady benefited from a solid running attack...didn't stop young Brady from lighting you up when needed or required or desired.



The same argument I had on another board. Everyone predicated that if you took Mike Vick and threw him into an offense (Like Andy Reid's) that Vick would NEVER succeed. Then Vick's second year in Philly happened.


You CANNOT make predictions on what QBs will do (especially young ones) in differing offenses. The BEST we can say is that Wilson and Kaepernick are generally efficient within the confines, boundaries, and limitations of their team's offensive system.


For all we know, you put Wilson in Denver's offense and he throws up 7000 yards and 80 tds.

In Topic: Manziel Not Impressing

24 May 2014 - 10:23 AM

Well, that is probably true. 


As they're things that Tannehill has to do in the Miami offense that Wilson doesn't have to do in Seattles. 


This was certainly the case early, and maybe Wilson's entire first season. He was basically spoon fed along. 


Tannehill, carries a much heavier load and burden on his team. 


All you have to ask yourself is, what if they switched teams? Would Wilson do as well, and be regarded as a top young QB? And how would Tannehill fit into Seattle? Quite frankly, I think any QB could, as you're not necessarily required to do much for the teams success. 


Yes, Wilson will make big plays scrambling with his legs. However, I think Tannehill would throw deep, more often to off set that ability in Wilson. 


My two cents. 


I knew you were going to say that. 


To make a long story short. I have had these discussions before so I will be brief:


At least last year: The more Wilson threw the ball, the MORE efficient he generally became. The same thing is true for Kaepernick. Kaepernick's highest rated games (per QB rating system) came on days in which he threw the most.


Oddly enough, one Andrew Luck is the opposite. Luck's best games tended to occur on days he threw the LEAST. The more Luck threw, the LESS efficient he was---generally.


The best Wilson days came on days in which he was asked or required to do more (more as far as passing attempts).


One of the best displays of young playoff QBing I witness was Wilson CARRYING the Seahawks vs. the Falcons. I personally feel that Tannehill could NEVER do that--and Tannehill has NEVER done that in ANY pro or college game I have witness.


So in short, NO, Tannehill could not switch places with Wilson and the Seahawks be as successful.


Just because Wilson is not required to "do a lot" in Seattle...doesn't mean that when the time comes he cannot pick your defense apart and score at will.


There was a time that Brady didn't "do a lot" in New England. But a young Brady could absolutely destroy your defense if he needed to. 

In Topic: Manziel Not Impressing

24 May 2014 - 10:09 AM

I can comment on a lot of what you said. However, at the moment I'll just respond to one. 


I have noticed this: A lot of the people who normally would have (or have) killed "Running QB's in the media, apparently like Johnny Manziel a lot (or at least wish him well).


As you were indicating. Many of these same people, short changed Cam and RG3 (most of them didn't know of or care for Kaepernick until he started the middle of his second year). But now they all magically feel Manziel would do well, when they never cared for his type of QB at all before. 


Is this pure hypocrisy? I can think of a multiplicity of reasons, besides what some would feel are some of the obvious reasons. 


It is at least hypocrisy. I remember when I was at FSU right before the The Golden Calf of Bristol era began at UF. I always visited their college football forum to see what the enemy was up to. The one feeling you always got (and it was stated explicitly by some) was that UF would never WANT a "dual-threat" QB. This was at the time of Vince Young and Pat White, and therefore spread option was starting to really take hold of top 25 college programs. UF fanbase was in general agreement that they wanted to remain pro-style.


Not a year later, along comes Chris Leak and "you know who" as his backup.


Let's just say that those SAME individuals that were explicit in their desires to avoid the spread option at UF couldn't change their minds quick enough. 


They had every right to change their minds and look what The Golden Calf of Bristol did for UF in his 3 years starting, they were justified. But, I always found it highly suspect that before we all knew what he would become, that the same people who so disliked spread option QBs would fall the hardest for The Golden Calf of Bristol and called for him to start over Leak.


Complete (while justified) hypocrisy. 

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