The KJ Bible actually included the apocrypha up until 1885.
Martin Luther is the one that took out books and portion of books (Esther I think) out of the original cannon from around 325. He attempted to remove Rev, Hebrews, James and Jude but that didn't go as well.
No. I didn't address your example because I'm not really all that interested in this discussion.
The only comment I really cared to throw in here was that examining ancient Jewish thought from a Western mindset is flawed. And that's done now.
You have your beliefs about Jesus and I have mine. I seriously doubt any discussion would make a difference to either of us. We could go round and round on it if you want to, but it'd be a whole lot of effort for no real reason. We just have different faiths, and I don't put a whole lot of value in discussing differences of faith over the Internet.
I doubt you'd call your beliefs "faith", but that's truly what they are. I have faith that Jesus is who he says he is, and you have faith that he isn't. That's pretty much where we stand, and I'm comfortable with that.
So when you are confronted with new information that conflicts with your world view you just dismiss it, claim to be closed mind and unwilling to change anything based on evidence and then accuse me that I am the same as you.
This is exactly how people never learn anything new. So discouraging to hear people be this way.
If you look at it from a Western perspective, it isn't as clear.
Ray Vander Laan is a guy who's done deep studies of the Jewish culture of New Testament Times. He points out how many things Jesus said pointed back to Old Testament quotes which would have identified him as God. It's the reason why many of the Jewish leaders at the time accused him of blasphemy.
Matthew was written to a Jewish audience. The writer purposefully had Jesus saying things and doing things to fulfill some Jewish prophecies. How do we know his intent? well several ways which you could look into but my most favorite example is this one:
Matthew litereally had Jesus ride into Jerusalem riding two animals a donkey and a colt because he didn't understand ancient Jewish poetry.
21:2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.21:3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. 21:4All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
I think this article can explain it better than I
Testament writers (Matthew, especially) often looked to the Old Testament for ways to understand Jesus.
Mark and Luke agree that Jesus rode on a donkey, and that's the story that's told in thousands of churches today. Matthew, on the other hand, has Jesus riding two beasts at the same time, an odd albeit remarkable feat. Matthew explains that Jesus did so to fulfill older Hebrew scriptures, and he partly quotesZechariah, writing, "Tell the daughter of Zion, 'Look your king is coming to you, humble and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.'" That quotation usually makes it into contemporary Palm Sunday retellings because of how it underscores the unusual nature of Jesus' kingship -- humble, in this case. But the bit about simultaneously riding both a donkey and a colt gets glossed thanks to Mark and Luke.
Zechariah's text appears as poetry, and the primary characteristic of biblical Hebrew poetry is parallelism. In its purest form, one line is followed by another that repeats its sense. Here's a great example from Proverbs 4:6 (about the importance of wisdom): "Do not forsake her, and she will keep you / Love her, and she will guard you." Get it? "Do not forsake her" is parallel to "love her," and "she will keep you" is parallel to "she will guard you." However, sometimes the parallelism is not so tidy but rather integrated into a sort of stepped structure that builds with repetition. That's true in Zechariah 9:9, which ends, "riding on an ass; ... on a donkey, the son of a she-beast."
Now add this additional bit of info about Hebrew convention: one single letter serves as every conjunction (our "and," "but," or "or"), and sometimes it shouldn't really be translated at all. That little letter appears right before "on a donkey," so together with what you now know about Hebrew poetry, you can see that Matthew went literal with his quote. He read Zechariah without poetic parallelism but rather as a straightforward narrative, and he translated the shadow conjunction literally, too. The result: in Matthew, Jesus enters Jerusalem straddling two animals.
Ehrman is the author of most college New Testament textbooks including those used at Harvard and Yale. He is a professor at UNC and writes books regarding textual criticism of the NT for the layman. If you want to know what the scholars say about Jesus and NT this interview is a great starting point.
Our general liability and car insurance went way up on our company renewal. Guess what the reason was that my agent gave me. Obamacare. No lie that is what he tried to blame it on. I asked him to give me more details and reasons that health insurance was effecting my liability and auto. Of course he couldn't go into further detail. In reality what I've found is you have to shop those insurances every 2-3 years because they always raise the premiums to ridiculous levels despite no claims etc. they just hope you sign the renewal and not pay attention.
I went with another company and got better coverage at a cheaper rate then he'd given me in the past. I guess Obamacare didn't effect my new agents number.
rape culture places the agency of choice with the victim rather than the rapist. rape culture is propagated in the common "ohhh better not wear a miniskirt, you might get raped" and schools that ban leggings because they're distracting to boys, etc. rather than culturally insisting that boys control themselves, we teach girls that they are responsible for controlling boys' behavior. i know i over-drop this word (not really actually cause it's so important) but these things are ingrained in our social structure which reflects traditional patriarchal ideals. i would argue, considering our nation's heritage, that many of these ideas are vestiges of biblical conservatism that's generated gender roles and interaction norms that began to be bucked against during the first wave of feminism a few decades back.
i haven't given this the thought or research that others have tho so if anyone else is more qualified maybe we can get something other than some surfacey thoughts and references
Lost count of how many times I've been told I shouldn't wear "x" clothing item or I should take a double look in the mirror at myself to be sure I'm not causing a man to lust after me. I still have gfs in their 30s who sub cum to that mentality.
Conversation with the family at Easter was regarding prom and how the girls at my old private school have to submit their prom dresses for approval, when I asked if the boys had to do anything approving their attire everyone just kind of laughed it off. I'm sure for that comment I'm now thought of as a terrible feminist.
the movie Contact makes some good points that I think are relevant to this topic.
i have learned over the years that if someone has had some type of "experience", whatever it may be, who am I to question them and call them an outright liar?
Agree but I have to go further. Trusting your own untestable experience so strongly to the point where you count it as knowledge is not only extremely arrogant but proven to be highly inaccurate. There are some mind bowing experiments regarding this. Truly fun to look into.
My health care has been provided free of charge by my employer for a decade and this year with the "Affordable Health care Act", I now have to pay a portion of the monthly premium.
Thanks big government.
Our companies went down. Same with my husbands.
I wonder how many employers say employees now have to pay a portion because of ACA but really incurred no more cost than a typical renewal but think its a great excuse.
I've found a place where I am allowed to talk about my doubts and questions openly without fear of being called a satan worshipper. I would rebuff people that did and have in the past. There is a type of intellectual superiority that both sides want to lay claim to...but doubt many fall too far outside the norm on the intellectual spectrum.
ramble need coffee ramble ramble
We tried to find that type of atmosphere but gave up. It seemed at first everyone was cool with "questioning" but when they realized we were questioning the fundamental beliefs of the Christianity suddenly it was too far or they became uninterested. We tried several different denominations but if you don't start with the Bible is divine then their message really is undermined and you realize you just aren't in the same place. I nevere tried out Catholicism, of course the whole Pope thing is even more bizarre to me, likely because I didn't grow up with him as an authority figure.
I took my daughter to church bc she was curious about it. In my honesty when meeting and greeting members of the church explaining how I want my daughter to experience the church to come to terms with her own decisions about faith....and how my beliefs differ..the convos got cold and uncomfortable after that. I felt like I got the "invasion of the Body Snatchers point and scream" as a dissenter.
For a second I thought I would be commended for putting aside my own beliefs to get my daughter engaged into the church..but no lol.
My daughter went school that week and a couple of her friends were like "Your dad is a Satan worshipper and is going to Hell." or she got interrogated about why she has to be saved...she was so offput and angry by this she did not want to go back.
I did make her go to give it a fair chance but she was miserable....I learned a lesson that in the Deep South, the ability to hide the truth is your best friend. Just play the game.
Apparently my son told one of his friends he didn't believe in god and he was then told he was going to hell.
We don't push religion or no religion on our son. I didn't plan on making it much of a conversation until he was a bit older but due to my mothers strong push to make him a Christian and telling him some of the more fuged up Christian beliefs like hell and demons we had too, of course her talks would spawn conversations. Anyways we tell our 7 year old that he is free to believe what he wants when it comes to religion, but that we recommend when he gets older figuring out were his beliefs come from and then looking into it all. He gets it and I think he enjoys the freedom of not having anything pushed on him and no negative retaliation.