Jump to content
  • Hey There!

    Please register to see fewer ads and a better viewing experience:100_Emoji_42x42:

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Hoenheim

What is Wrong With Cam Newton and Will He Fix It In the Playoffs?

Recommended Posts

On 1/2/2018 at 10:06 PM, GoobyPls said:

Also this whole dink and dunk offense has to be scraped ASAP, Cam next season has to come out throwing deep down field. We are wasting a once in a generation arm talent and making him play like Alex Smith

We have a dink and dunk offense? 

You take what the offense gives you. 

You don't throw deep down field when there are two safeties back with LBs also drifting back taking away the deep pass. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


1 minute ago, Cartel de Carolina said:

We have a dink and dunk offense? 

You take what the offense gives you. 

You don't throw deep down field when there are two safeties back with LBs also drifting back taking away the deep pass. 

Yeah we do and the strong safety most of the time against us has been in the box for the run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, beastson said:

Yeah we do and the strong safety most of the time against us has been in the box for the run.

We do not have a dink and dunk offense. If we did we would be moving the changes more. Shula likes to call deep vertical routes. We rarely utilize shallow drags, short digs, flats, etc. 

Go look at the thread with the first 8 incompletions. The the D is giving us the short shallow stuff. The flats are particularly open every play as well as the CBs playing 10 yards of the WRs giving us an easy quick 5 yard out route. 

To run a dink and dunk offense the ball needs to be coming out within 3 seconds consistently. Cam is not looking short first and is holding on to the ball longer than 2-3 seconds. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175219821

1st Play: 

Bottom screen flats wide open

2nd Play: 

Delayed bottom screen flat wide open. CMC is open initially. 

This play is blown up by pressure. Cam still has 3 seconds though. 

3rd Play:

Slant was open for a second. CMC was open. Cam messed up the timing. Ball was out in 3 seconds. 

4th Play: 

Flat and shallow drag wide open. 

5th Play:

Delayed TE release wide open

6th Play:

Screen play

7th Play:

3 verticals. Delayed HC release wide open

Notice a pattern here?

Flats and delayed routes usually open. Also, CBs are playing 10 yards off our WRs. Need to try some quick out routes. Minimal use of shallow drags. 

A good OC is going to train and instruct the QB to know these and look for them. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Cartel de Carolina said:

We do not have a dink and dunk offense. If we did we would be moving the changes more. Shula likes to call deep vertical routes. We rarely utilize shallow drags, short digs, flats, etc. 

Go look at the thread with the first 8 incompletions. The the D is giving us the short shallow stuff. The flats are particularly open every play as well as the CBs playing 10 yards of the WRs giving us an easy quick 5 yard out route. 

To run a dink and dunk offense the ball needs to be coming out within 3 seconds consistently. Cam is not looking short first and is holding on to the ball longer than 2-3 seconds. 

 

A lot of the routes are 10-12 yard routes. Defenses knew our deep passing attack in the past and our routes were consistently 20+. That didnt stop anything. With the addition of CMC, Shula put an emphasis on shortening the routes. Falcons run a cover 3 zone, that's what they're designed to do is take away the deep ball and stop the run. Not all defenses run cover 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Cartel de Carolina said:

We have a dink and dunk offense? 

You take what the offense gives you. 

You don't throw deep down field when there are two safeties back with LBs also drifting back taking away the deep pass. 

We only completed two passes where the ball travled over 40 yards this season TWO. Cam had the lowest yards per completion of his entire career. We threw it more to RB this season than ever before, we had more screen passes this season than in the previous two seasons combined 

 

It may not be New Orleans dink and dunk but the it’s up there, they are trying to force Cam into something he’s not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

We only completed two passes where the ball travled over 40 yards this season TWO. Cam had the lowest yards per completion of his entire career. We threw it more to RB this season than ever before, we had more screen passes this season than in the previous two seasons combined 

 

It may not be New Orleans dink and dunk but the it’s up there, they are trying to force Cam into something he’s not

Not by design. 

If you run a dink and dunk offense, common sense says you look short to long and aim to have the ball out of your hands in 2-3 seconds. 

The D is taking away the deep routes so obviously those completions will be few and far between. Especially considering Cam doesn't make them cover short. 

Go look at the breakdown of the ATL game. Flats and delayed routes are usually wide open. If we run a dink and dunk offense by design then Cam would have been attacking those routes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

We only completed two passes where the ball travled over 40 yards this season TWO. Cam had the lowest yards per completion of his entire career. We threw it more to RB this season than ever before, we had more screen passes this season than in the previous two seasons combined 

 

It may not be New Orleans dink and dunk but the it’s up there, they are trying to force Cam into something he’s not

I didn't mind the addition of the short passing attack but it came at the expense of our deep passing attack too much. 

Based on my rough math from http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/car we threw the ball roughly 55% of the time in 2016 but only 51% in 2016.  So not only did we throw less we threw short more, basically those short passes came at the expense of our deep attack, which as Gooby said came at the expense of what Cam historically does best.

Maybe if we would have increase our short passing by running less the outcome would have been somewhat different.  I would love to see a statistical break down of number of passes by distance compared to last year, but I'm too lazy to look that up.  We see determined to be a running team even if it isn't what we do best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cartel de Carolina said:

Not by design. 

If you run a dink and dunk offense, common sense says you look short to long and aim to have the ball out of your hands in 2-3 seconds. 

The D is taking away the deep routes so obviously those completions will be few and far between. Especially considering Cam doesn't make them cover short. 

Go look at the breakdown of the ATL game. Flats and delayed routes are usually wide open. If we run a dink and dunk offense by design then Cam would have been attacking those routes. 

Teams always try to take the deep routes away, this isn’t some new discovery teams figured out this season.

 

Both the coaches and front office came up with this plan to make our offense more of checkdown short throws offense, they have been saying that since April. So yes we are running more of a dink and dunk offense especially for our standards 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/2/2018 at 10:00 AM, *FreeFua* said:

Let’s swap WR’s with one of these other NFC playoff teams and see how far they make it.

I guess it's time to get that big time receiver in the draft for Cam, oh wait... Everyone wants Defense. A safety, nevermind! Carry on! Safety is a need, Left Tackle has always been a need. Let's hope Daryl Williams can build on his solid 2017 season. Gotta resign Norwell and Star somehow. Need a true Center for the future, Larsen is alright but I don't see him as a future 10 year stud for us. Moton is the one I'm really intrigued with, can he play Left Guard if Norwell walks? 2018 Is already appearing to be a big fat poo storm. New ownership,  probably will stick with Hurney and god knows what he'll do. He doesn't have the big man in his ear telling him to resign this guy and that guy. I'm just rambling on but I really hope this team values Cam and knows he needs weapons.

 

How long have we watched guys like Aaron Rodgers showcase Davante Adams, Jordy Nelson, and Randall Cobb? While our Quarterback is stuck with Devin Funchess * Can be a star in this league with someone to threaten the Defense down the field. Curtis Samuel- Beginning of his rookie season the jury is still very much out, I like him but he's only a slot type. Got banged up through college and now he's getting banged up pretty good in the pros. Byrd- Love the kid but he's a slot receiver,  shown promise but like Samuel he's getting banged up. Bersin??? Tha ***? Should have been cut for good 3 or 4 seasons ago. Who else? I'm getting tired of this crap, we have a pretty solid line for Cam. Now we may lose Norwell and still rest on our laurels to only not get a receiver he needs in Calvin Ridley. Ridley with Samuel and Byrd mixing up the slot roles would be heavenly. 

 

I rant and rave each time I hear the word receivers, we've had chances. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Teams always try to take the deep routes away, this isn’t some new discovery teams figured out this season.

 

Both the coaches and front office came up with this plan to make our offense more of checkdown short throws offense, they have been saying that since April. So yes we are running more of a dink and dunk offense especially for our standards 

That is why it's even more amazing (troubling) that Cam / Shula / Ron do not look to attacking the weaknesses of the D or what they give us. 

What someone says means little. 

We merely have to go to the tape to see the reality of the situation. 

And the reality of the situation is we are not a dink and dunk team by design. 

Teams take away the deep routes and leave the flats wide open and also delay routes wide open. 

Cam not looking to attack short (dink/dunk) looks deep and either forces a bad pass into coverage or holds on to the ball too long and the line breaks down forcing him to scramble and either throw the ball away or again try a forced pass. 

The only time we actually look to pass short by design is on CMC plays when that is the main / sometimes only read. 

It merely appears we run a dink and dunk offense because of how infrequent we complete long passes and the plays solely designed for CMC. 

70% of our plays are going deep and Cam is looking to hit them. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cartel de Carolina said:

That is why it's even more amazing (troubling) that Cam / Shula / Ron do not look to attacking the weaknesses of the D or what they give us. 

What someone says means little. 

We merely have to go to the tape to see the reality of the situation. 

And the reality of the situation is we are not a dink and dunk team by design. 

Teams take away the deep routes and leave the flats wide open and also delay routes wide open. 

Cam not looking to attack short (dink/dunk) looks deep and either forces a bad pass into coverage or holds on to the ball too long and the line breaks down forcing him to scramble and either throw the ball away or again try a forced pass. 

The only time we actually look to pass short by design is on CMC plays when that is the main / sometimes only read. 

It merely appears we run a dink and dunk offense because of how infrequent we complete long passes and the plays solely designed for CMC. 

70% of our plays are going deep and Cam is looking to hit them. 

 

Eh not really, every team has someone going deep in almost every play, but Funchess route tree this season (whose Cam’s main read) has been far from going deep. Even when KB was here we were running a ton of slants and and curls. This is a completely different offense than the one we have been running in the past seasons.

 

Also this whole Cam takes a long time has to do with the fact teams don’t respect our receivers so they play press man, jamming them at the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Eh not really, every team has someone going deep in almost every play, but Funchess route tree this season (whose Cam’s main read) has been far from going deep. Even when KB was here we were running a ton of slants and and curls. This is a completely different offense than the one we have been running in the past seasons.

 

Also this whole Cam takes a long time has to do with the fact teams don’t respect our receivers so they play press man, jamming them at the line.

I do not think you follow me. 

I want 1-2 routes going deep 80% of passing plays. I merely want them complimented with underneath routes (levels concepts / clear outs etc) a long with a route to the flat and or delayed release. I also want Cam to FIRST look to attack those short quick routes as that is usually what the D is going to give you. Why would a D cover or worry about the flats if we never attack that area of the field? 

There is a reason why our offense sucks and it is not due to Cam and the rest of the O players. This is all Shula's fault until we actually make appropriate changes in our offense scheme and Cam and the boys simply can not execute. 

Press man? Dude, ATL's CBs were playing 10 yards off the WRs. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cartel de Carolina said:

I do not think you follow me. 

I want 1-2 routes going deep 80% of passing plays. I merely want them complimented with underneath routes (levels concepts / clear outs etc) a long with a route to the flat and or delayed release. I also want Cam to FIRST look to attack those short quick routes as that is usually what the D is going to give you. Why would a D cover or worry about the flats if we never attack that area of the field? 

There is a reason why our offense sucks and it is not due to Cam and the rest of the O players. This is all Shula's fault until we actually make appropriate changes in our offense scheme and Cam and the boys simply can not execute. 

Press man? Dude, ATL's CBs were playing 10 yards off the WRs. 

 

you dont notice the underneath crossing route accompanied by the deep routes? just because the ball isnt thrown there doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



×