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Matthias

For those who said slavery ended in 1865

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12 hours ago, cookinwithgas said:

Hey man thanks for reminding us about the black slave owners and the many free blacks

 

lest we forget

Did the black slave owners own white slaves?  The "free" blacks were at best second class citizens.

 

 

5 hours ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

It’s a damn shame Obamas DOJ didn’t arrest or charge anyone in this.

 

It is, but it was Obama who continued the bailouts, the so called first black president.

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2 minutes ago, Matthias said:

Did the black slave owners own white slaves?  The "free" blacks were at best second class citizens.

 

 

The "Freed" blacks were often forced to buy their wife and/or children and report them as slaves which is another sickening facet of this whole sickening history.

 

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17 minutes ago, Fryfan said:

The "Freed" blacks were often forced to buy their wife and/or children and report them as slaves which is another sickening facet of this whole sickening history.

 

Yep.  Most owners of slaves who were black fell into this category.  At the end of the day, black people were still the slaves and victims.

For those interested, here's another awesome video I've found a while back on youtube showing how this country continued to hold black people back long after the Civil War.....
 

 

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On 6/14/2018 at 7:02 AM, Matthias said:



 

 

It is, but it was Obama who continued the bailouts, the so called first black president.

Many people don’t want to admit it but obama was just a corporate and controlled as any of the white presidents that came before him. Most wont put that on his legacy but that and the drone program is what makes me believe he should be viewed as a republican president. That and the ACA is a republican invention and really was for the health care industry to make more money

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On 6/11/2018 at 8:59 PM, PhillyB said:

doing really fuging rudimentary math, there are 30 million black adults and 210 million non-black adults in the USA. that's roughly $4,000 each non black person ponies up for black people to get 30k each in reparations.

now spread that poo out as a graduated system like taxes with brackets. the majority of the burden will fall on those who have benefited the most and need it the least. raise taxes marginally to cover it. spread it out over a couple of years. cut stupid poo like an astronomical defense budget most people don't even want to cut into the burden.

i'd happily shell out a few bucks over a couple years for my paychecks to write a wrong. i wouldn't even feel the hit. few people really would.

why piss vinegar over it?

Would 30k really solve the problem?  Would everyone be happy then or should it be more?

What about giving a larger lump sum to the oldest generation in each family and they can pass the money down how they seem fit?  For example if your grandparents are still alive it would go to them, if grandparents aren't alive it would go to parents.  Would that seem more like reperations than a handout, would people view it different?

Personally I think the income gap in this country is probably the single biggest issue we are facing right now.  A lot of our other issues, would start to fix themselves if you fix the income gap.

I wish I could find the article but someone was suggesting a lump sum payment to everyone based on income level when they turned a certain age (can't remember if it was 18 or 21).  That way everyone could have some money for school or a down payment on a house.  I would think that would help a large percentage of black people but that doesn't really address the moral aspect of what reparations would represent.

On 6/11/2018 at 1:43 PM, TheRed said:

The reparations discussion is one where even liberals begin to tell on themselves.

Whether you agree with it or not, there are a lot of white people out there that didn't' really start with anything and live pay check to pay check so its hard to convince them they need to give up more to give others something.  Because of this I really can't see a politician pushing the issue because they would lose too many votes over it. 

A lot of these graphs and articles talking about the wealth gap in this country would look different if you removed the top 10% of each group. 

Reparations might be the right thing to do but an income redistribution might be easier to get passed.

 

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15 hours ago, AU-panther said:

 

A lot of these graphs and articles talking about the wealth gap in this country would look different if you removed the top 10% of each group. 

Reparations might be the right thing to do but an income redistribution might be easier to get passed.

 

Wealth by income and race

 

 

 

The wealth gap exists in every income group.  The racial problem exists separately from the income gap problem.  Yes both need solving but to derail a wealth gap for African american discussion with a completely separate issue is harmful.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fryfan said:

Wealth by income and race

 

 

 

The wealth gap exists in every income group.  The racial problem exists separately from the income gap problem.  Yes both need solving but to derail a wealth gap for African american discussion with a completely separate issue is harmful.

 

 

I'm not trying to derail anything, I said several times that there is a moral aspect to reparations that a overall income redistribution wouldn't address but the fact is both in theory could achieve some of the same goals.

I'm just thinking out loud trying to foster some discussion on how to fix a problem.  This thread is 10 pages long and how many people have actually thrown out a solution.  In classic Tinderbox fashion most threads aren't focused on fixing problems but instead everyone is just trying to prove a problem exist or show how smart they are, hence the reason I'm guessing you reposted the graph to me.

Overall white people have accumulated more wealth then black people and that is directly tied to the fact that black people started as slaves in this country.  I think most reasonable people understand that, how do you fix it?  

 I understand that to fix a problem you have to admit the problem but to not take the next step and talk about how to fix the problem is also harmful.

 

 

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Of course some of you are focused on the check aspect of reparations.  Reparations done right will be more than a check.  I've mentioned debt cancellation, particularly student loan debt.  I've mentioned no interest business loans and home loans, free tuition for 20 years or more, and federal guaranteed jobs.  Reparations will be a huge investment into the descendants of slaves, as large or larger than the bailouts to big banks under the Bush and Obama administrations.  There's no question we have the money and resources in this country to do it.  Slave labor was used to build the richest nation on earth, so it's time a chunk of that is put into the hands of their descendants.

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16 minutes ago, Matthias said:

Of course some of you are focused on the check aspect of reparations.  Reparations done right will be more than a check.  I've mentioned debt cancellation, particularly student loan debt.  I've mentioned no interest business loans and home loans, free tuition for 20 years or more, and federal guaranteed jobs.  Reparations will be a huge investment into the descendants of slaves, as large or larger than the bailouts to big banks under the Bush and Obama administrations.  There's no question we have the money and resources in this country to do it.  Slave labor was used to build the richest nation on earth, so it's time a chunk of that is put into the hands of their descendants.

Conceptually, I'm 100% in favor of reparations. Practically, the realities of seeing them through were dizzying to me, and at first I struggled with how the rest of Americans would respond to free college tuition or interest free loans i.e. the inherent 'fairness' of it relative to their own costs, etc.. Then I remembered that we give our service men and women 'free' college, and preferential rates on loans, etc., etc., etc. and none of those same Americans that balk at reparations have any problem with those entitlements. Those same people probably never had a problem accepting farming subsidies from the government. 

I'm in for Philly's $4,000 if it will help level the field. I honestly don't see how releasing a ton of capital back into the economy in the form of reparations could be a bad thing economically. 

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13 minutes ago, PanthersBigD said:

Conceptually, I'm 100% in favor of reparations. Practically, the realities of seeing them through were dizzying to me, and at first I struggled with how the rest of Americans would respond to free college tuition or interest free loans i.e. the inherent 'fairness' of it relative to their own costs, etc.. Then I remembered that we give our service men and women 'free' college, and preferential rates on loans, etc., etc., etc. and none of those same Americans that balk at reparations have any problem with those entitlements. Those same people probably never had a problem accepting farming subsidies from the government. 

I'm in for Philly's $4,000 if it will help level the field. I honestly don't see how releasing a ton of capital back into the economy in the form of reparations could be a bad thing economically. 

Yes, and that is the biggest plus for the American people.  This is an actual government investment into the people.  The descendants of slaves will be first, and then the investment will spread to all.  This is the kind of transformative government we need to fix our problems.

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