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Mr. Scot

LaDainian Tomlinson on the Panthers offense

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Talking about today's game on Gameday Prime, host Charissa Thompson asked LaDainian Tomlinson (who played under Norv Turner in San Diego) "What's wrong with the Panthers offense?"

Don't have a clip available at this point, so I'll try to summarize how Tomlinson  responded, beginning with a direct quote:

"Here's the thing.Cam can't do what Norv needs him to do".

Tomlinson asserted (correctly) that Norv Turner's offenses are all about timing. The idea is to hit the three, five or seven step drop and get the ball out quick. Timing and rhythm are everything.

He then stated that Newton doesn't do these things well.

Flipping the coin, Tomlinson also said that the things which Newton does do well (mentioning specifically the read option) are plays that Turner "doesn't know how to call" properly. That's not his game, and thus the two of them wind up being a mismatch.

Thompson followed up Tomlinson's analysis by asking him how to fix it. Tomlinson said it's primarily up to Newton to learn how to run Turner's offense. Though he did say that Turner could also try to learn some of what Cam knows well, he put the brunt of the responsibility on Newton.

Deion Sanders pointed out that Newton has been effective running, but agreed with Tomlinson that Newton is not a timing quarterback (doubt anybody here would argue that).

Tomlinson then expressed that he believes Turner is in a very tough position. Speaking to Sanders, Tomlinson said (paraphrasing) "You know how hard it is for an offensive coordinator to call plays when he doesn't know if the guy running the plays can do it, so you have to settle for this" (i.e. something you know he can do).

Asked how long they would expect it to take to fix the problem, Sanders answered "playoffs", so effectively the whole regular season. Mind you, if Sanders were correct about this, I kinda question whether we'd actually be in the playoffs.

Thought it would be worth posting what was said. It'd be nice if a clip were available, but not yet. Maybe tomorrow.

Clip or no clip, I have a sense that Tomlinson's comments probably won't be all that well received here :thinking:

Edited by Mr. Scot
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looked like we moved the ball well after the first quarter, especially in the second half. the 3 turnovers stalled drives, and our defense gave up long drives that ended in FG. we only had the ball 3 times, but all three drives were solid, until we stalled on the last one.

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1 minute ago, Mother Grabber said:

looked like we moved the ball well after the first quarter, especially in the second half. the 3 turnovers stalled drives, and our defense gave up long drives that ended in FG. we only had the ball 3 times, but all three drives were solid, until we stalled on the last one.

I'm of the opinion that the defense is a larger problem than the offense right now.

It is, however, valid to point out that our offense has had some struggles. And seeing as that last drive is the final visual that's going to stick in a lot of people's minds, I expect there to be a decent amount of discussion about it (fair or not).

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm of the opinion that the defense is a larger problem than the offense right now.

It is, however, valid to point out that our offense has had some struggles. And seeing as that last drive is the final visual that's going to stick in a lot of people's minds, I expect there to be a decent amount of discussion about it (fair or not).

I even question why Cam didn't target Olsen but then again why didn't the Seahawks run it in the superbowl? 

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A gutless 4th down punt and two costly fumbles  essentially lost us a game we still almost won. Cam is Cam and he’ll only mesh with Norv even more as the season goes. I’m not too worried about them, we’ll be alright and squeak in the playoffs and hopefully make some noise. 

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7 minutes ago, Snake said:

Timing isn't the issue. Newton is definitely late sometimes but every QB is. Grand scheme we were down 17 and almost came back. It isn't a QB failure. 

It's not just timing in the sense of generic timing, though. It's pointing out that Newton isn't that type of quarterback.

It's not a criticism of Newton to say that he isn't a "timing and rhythm" quarterback. He isn't. Neither is Roethlisberger (and others). The reverse analogy would be asking a guy like Tom Brady or Drew Brees to run a read option.

Whether or not these differences in approach are big enough to cause a problem is the real question.

Edited by Mr. Scot
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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

It's not just timing in the sense of generic timing, though. It's pointing out that Newton isn't that type of quarterback.

It's not a criticism of Newton to say that he isn't a "timing and rhythm" quarterback. He isn't. Neither is Roethlisberger (and others). The reverse analogy would be asking a guy like Tom Brady or Drew Brees to run a read option.

Whether or not these differences in approach are big enough to cause a problem is the question.

IMO Newton is having one of his better years as far as pocket awareness and rhythm. It's a complex thing because his WRs are also new and young. Either way Norv has been much better than Shula and honestly Cam and the read option need to be faded out because it's been used so much. With McCaffery I rather have a short pass than a read option and Cam still gets his best runs under center not with the option. If anything this year I think we have forced the read option just to make the run game work when we could have been using screens or short passes to set it up. Just my thoughts though. 

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what a stupid take from someone who probably knows better (but also knows his audience). of course cam can run norv's offense. but let's just say norv was throwing all kinds of bullshit at cam that cam couldn't do. if you're a coach and you're not coaching to the strengths of your former mvp and future hall of fame quarterback then you're the problem. 

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4 minutes ago, Snake said:

IMO Newton is having one of his better years as far as pocket awareness and rhythm. It's a complex thing because his WRs are also new and young. Either way Norv has been much better than Shula and honestly Cam and the read option need to be faded out because it's been used so much. With McCaffery I rather have a short pass than a read option and Cam still gets his best runs under center not with the option. If anything this year I think we have forced the read option just to make the run game work when we could have been using screens or short passes to set it up. Just my thoughts though. 

I don't think anybody would argue against the notion that Norv is a better OC than Shula. No doubt Turner is infinitely better when it comes to knowing how to use Christian McCaffrey.

 

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Norv’s offense is a relic just like he is. Look at Rivers numbers when Norv left, he had a career year. Look at the Vikings offense with Norv left, again instantly got better. Even the Browns offense got better I believe.

 

 

Its obvious our offense and Cam are at their best when they play at a fast pace and let him throw it and control the tempo of the game.

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We're just not a very good football team right now. We're 20th in the league in yards per game. We're 20th in the league in yards allowed per game. We're 12th in points for, we're 13th in points against.

It's surprising that were 3-2. Had Gano missed that hail Mary and we were 2-3 I'd say that record pretty much perfectly matches what the stats would suggest.

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3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We're just not a very good football team right now. We're 20th in the league in yards per game. We're 20th in the league in yards allowed per game. We're 12th in points for, we're 13th in points against.

It's surprising that were 3-2. Had Gano missed that hail Mary and we were 2-3 I'd say that record pretty much perfectly matches what the stats would suggest.

Gotta give Chase Blackburn a pat on the back for that one. Apparently he's the one who convinced Rivera to go for the long field goal (really took some balls when you think about it).

Chase might just have a decent future in coaching.

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14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't think anybody would argue against the notion that Norv is a better OC than Shula. No doubt Turner is infinitely better when it comes to knowing how to use Christian McCaffrey.

 

And while timing routes may not be Newtons familiarity once every gets on the same page we should see more guys getting open. Ian Thomas would be one of those who down the stretch should provide extra firepower once he grapes the timing routes. 

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