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Icege

Changing the Narrative, Vol. 1: #9 vs. #16

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52 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

This isn't the NBA.  So much easier to tank with 5 guys than 22. Furthermore the talent drop off from 1-5 in the NBA draft is much worse than the NFL.  As the opening post indicated that between 9 and 16 you can get a player of equal or greater talent at 16 as you can at 9.  Once again as the OP indicated, over the past 12 years you have had better talent at 16 as you did 9.  6 each way or 50% of the time.  Obviously you have a couple more players to choose from but when the talking heads say Sweat will fall to 15 or 16 that isn't a bad choice.

Comparing Derwin James to DJ Moore is a bad example because they are totally different positions.   You also have far too many veterans at the WR position that would be Pro Bowlers over a rookie regardless of how good a season he had. You could also argue that had our coaching staff used Moore from day one he would have been in the conversation.  

It also should be noted that the 76ers tanked for years before they got good.  As a GM and HC you wouldn't have a job if you did it over a course of many years in the NFL.  You can use the Browns as a prime example.  How many coaches have they had while tanking for a draft pick?

Lastly because I feel tanking is not the way to go in the NFL doesn't mean it's a dumb debate because you feel it is a viable move. 

I had my response typed with literally all of this only to see that you already mentioned all of the points I was going to make (quality will be there at 16, NBA roster size vs. NFL roster size, NBA bust rate vs. NFL bust rate, would the rather have James than Moore, length of careers in the NBA vs. NFL).

To show my appreciation, here's a taco: :Taco_Emoji_42x42: 

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1 hour ago, Icege said:

I had my response typed with literally all of this only to see that you already mentioned all of the points I was going to make (quality will be there at 16, NBA roster size vs. NFL roster size, NBA bust rate vs. NFL bust rate, would the rather have James than Moore, length of careers in the NBA vs. NFL).

To show my appreciation, here's a taco: :Taco_Emoji_42x42: 

Not fair to mention taco to a man sitting in the middle of the desert....lol (of course my taco, in my mind doesn't look like that :shades:)

Thanks for the props

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How long will this be a topic?? Can we get a timeline when this poo ends??

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31 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

How long will this be a topic?? Can we get a timeline when this poo ends??

Are you familiar with the concept of the heat death of the universe?

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3 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

How long will this be a topic?? Can we get a timeline when this poo ends??

It won't end.  If whoever we pick at 16 doesn't produce from the very first preseason game, the "glad we won that last game crowd" will be thrilled and continue the one line remark throughout next season.  If whoever we pick at 16 sets the NFL on fire, it will be replaced with "glad we won that last game" except it won't be sarcastic.  

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I posted this somewhere else, can't remember. Historically after the top 5, the NFL draft is a crap shoot with basically 50-50 odds of hitting on a player from pick 6-32. The most successful range after the top 5 is actually 10-17 with around 55%. 

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“Vol 1”?! This makes me assume there are more volumes of this nonsense to come. This stupid thread does not warrant another post. 

9th pick > 16th pick. End of discussion 

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On 3/7/2019 at 9:39 AM, Chosen Newton said:

“Vol 1”?! This makes me assume there are more volumes of this nonsense to come. This stupid thread does not warrant another post. 

9th pick > 16th pick. End of discussion 

Uh oh, sounds like somebody doesn't want their echo chamber to be disturbed because they've been listening to mindless narratives such as "YOU HAVE TO LOSE THE LAST GAME SO THAT WE CAN DRAFT A ONCE IN A LIFETIME PLAYER AT #9!" and "MARTY HURNEY BUILT THE 2015 TEAM!"

Stay tuned and we might even challenge other stupid poo some folks believe, such as "THE EARTH IS FLAT!", "VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM!", and "MY SISTER IS A GOOD KISSER!"

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On 3/7/2019 at 9:39 AM, Chosen Newton said:

 

9th pick > 16th pick. End of discussion 

We all agree 9>16. What the OP showed is that historically there is no difference in talent.

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2 hours ago, Icege said:

Uh oh, sounds like somebody doesn't want their echo chamber to be disturbed because they've been listening to mindless narratives such as "YOU HAVE TO LOSE THE LAST GAME SO THAT WE CAN DRAFT A ONCE IN A LIFETIME PLAYER AT #9!" and "MARTY HURNEY BUILT THE 2015 TEAM!"

Stay tuned and we might even challenge other stupid poo some folks believe, such as "THE EARTH IS FLAT!", "VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM!", and "MY SISTER IS A GOOD KISSER!"

You sound butthurt you can’t convince people of your stupid analysis. You say Ross at 9 is equivalent to Humphrey at 16 yet you completely ignore Mahomes Watson and hooker who were picked before the 16th pick and could have been picked at 9 ya numbnut. Maybe you should put some more thought into your posts and making valid points rather than worrying about demeaning your critics *cue mic drop*

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1 hour ago, Chosen Newton said:

You sound butthurt you can’t convince people of your stupid analysis. You say Ross at 9 is equivalent to Humphrey at 16 yet you completely ignore Mahomes Watson and hooker who were picked before the 16th pick and could have been picked at 9 ya numbnut. Maybe you should put some more thought into your posts and making valid points rather than worrying about demeaning your critics *cue mic drop*

"But they COULD have been picked at 9..." but they weren't, were they? So it doesn't matter. That's like saying Antonio Brown and Kareem Hunt could have been selected at #16 as well. Get all of the fug outta here with that nonsense.

Why would I care if people don't change their minds? Some of y'all still think that Shaq should be gone, that one DE at #9 is going to fix our pass rush, that whoever gets picked at #16 is going to be worthless, or that 53 grown ass men are going to suddenly turn it in so that the higher ups can get an earlier chance to replace them.

Some folks commit hard to being wrong and that's okay, because without losers we can't have winners.

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1 hour ago, Icege said:

"But they COULD have been picked at 9..." but they weren't, were they? So it doesn't matter. That's like saying Antonio Brown and Kareem Hunt could have been selected at #16 as well. Get all of the fug outta here with that nonsense.

Why would I care if people don't change their minds? Some of y'all still think that Shaq should be gone, that one DE at #9 is going to fix our pass rush, that whoever gets picked at #16 is going to be worthless, or that 53 grown ass men are going to suddenly turn it in so that the higher ups can get an earlier chance to replace them.

Some folks commit hard to being wrong and that's okay, because without losers we can't have winners.

yes, and i'd like to thank you and the public school system for the win.

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On 3/6/2019 at 2:21 AM, DaveThePanther2008 said:

First of all, how do you build a winning culture if you ask players to give less than 100%? Regardless of current record and playoff status and against a divisional foe.  What the Saints or any other team does isn't our issue.   You play who is on the field but to outright ask them to tank is counterproductive what you are trying to build within your organization.

Secondly, if we had to "tank" for draft position, to me the only acceptable tanking, it would be for a top 5 pick.  As the OP noted quality players, even better players can be had between 9 and 16.  While they aren't necessarily franchise players they most likely will be solid pros.  I can't speak exactly for the OP but from my take he is trying to show that you are going to get a talented player at 16 as you would 9.  

Just like us teams have holes to fill and a great player could slide well into the 20s because his position doesn't meet any teams top needs. AKA Aaron Rodgers.

For all those that bitch about Hurney and Gettleman,  I will say this. Hurney has nailed every first round pick.  Even when we traded away to get Otah.  He was a solid player until he gave up on football. And in comparison to Gettleman it isn't even close. I will take Hurney's first round pick and believe it will help the team. Gettleman, not so much. If he does as well as he did last year.  I think he'll do ok with 2019 draft.  (though some will bitch about every player drafted).

BOTTOM LINE. YOU DON'T TANK IF YOU ARE TRYING TO BUILD A WINNING CULTURE.  END OF STORY!!!!

 

Dude this team was giving 25% the second half of the season, what is one more game?  

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11 minutes ago, Zaximus said:

Dude this team was giving 25% the second half of the season, what is one more game?  

To be fair, the last game of the season was won by the backups and back up to back ups.  Not the starters who put on one of the greatest midseason collapses in the history of the NFL.  For the people that wanted us to lose that final game, maybe the key was to keep playing the starters.

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3 hours ago, Icege said:

"But they COULD have been picked at 9..." but they weren't, were they? So it doesn't matter. That's like saying Antonio Brown and Kareem Hunt could have been selected at #16 as well. Get all of the fug outta here with that nonsense.

LOL point I’m making, which is surprisingly going way over your head, is that mahomes Watson and hooker did not make it to the 16th pick. Therefore, having the 9th pick gives you the ability to draft those players. DUY!

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