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Proudiddy

Gettleman is getting absolutely destroyed by national media... STILL

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6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I did not. The history of QB's with completion percentage issues in college making a successful transition to the NFL level is not very kind. Can he be a franchise QB? Possibly. I just don't see enough raw material to warrant a top 10 pick. Nor did most of the rest of the league. Now, you take him in the 2nd or 3rd round, no big deal. If he's a bust, whatever. 

I don't think he can be a good GM because I think his early successes here(especially hitting on so many dumpster dive pick ups) realllllllly went to his head. People can even forgive you being an asshole, if you are a brilliant asshole. He isn't. Reference some of his panic drafts. He also has the inherent need to be the "smartest guy in the room" to a fault. Sometimes you are just wrong about things, but he seems to have a problem with that.

The truth is, Dave/frash.exe did a fantastic job unwinding us from the cap hell that Hurney left in Carolina. He did a good job with his early dumpster dive moves and had some very good drafts. But, in the end his drafts got progressively worse and his dumpster dives were less and less successful. Hurney was similar. Early success that steadily went downhill. Another true statement, NEITHER of them are good GM's. They are well below average to average, at their very best. 

I really think Jones was the best QB in this class. I try to watch guys' mechanics, etc. in game situations, and I try not to buy into the hype that the top guys get. Jones showed the most promise to me as a developmental pro.

That said, I don't think you take him that early at all. I didn't like any of the QBs to be taken in the top 15 this year, based on talent compared to previous years.

I can agree to disagree. I like both you and frash, as far as I can remember, as posters. I can see where you're both coming from in this one  though, so it is tough.

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5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I'm actually having a lot of fun watching you invent words and butcher the English language in a ham handed attempt at insult comedy. I am more than willing to carry on. I have some time to kill before an event this evening.

have fun at your uncle’s/cousin’s wedding 

i’ll talk to you never

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Honestly, grown men like frash.exe notifying other men they are putting them on their ignore list over something like this is just pure gold.

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2 minutes ago, frash.exe said:

have fun at your uncle’s/cousin’s wedding 

i’ll talk to you never

Poor Dave. I hurt his little feelings.

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11 minutes ago, Bronn said:

I really think Jones was the best QB in this class. I try to watch guys' mechanics, etc. in game situations, and I try not to buy into the hype that the top guys get. Jones showed the most promise to me as a developmental pro.

That said, I don't think you take him that early at all. I didn't like any of the QBs to be taken in the top 15 this year, based on talent compared to previous years.

I can agree to disagree. I like both you and frash, as far as I can remember, as posters. I can see where you're both coming from in this one  though, so it is tough.

Yeah and really it was pretty widely regarded as a very weak QB class. As an ACC guy I saw plenty of Jones and generally regarded him as a good college QB with some decent backup potential in the NFL. To be quite honest, I think a lot of the hype train on Jones got a little away because of Cutcliffe's reputation as a QB whisperer. But, it is not like Duke is putting a bunch of successful QB's in the NFL. I don't want to dig Cut too much in that regard because he has done an AMAZING job turning around the culture at one of the worst college football jobs in the country. 

I also agree that none of this crop would be in my top 15. But QB is the most important position in the NFL right now, so it is easy to see how QB needy teams reach. Really, as laughably bad as the NYG's pick of Jones was, how bad does the Rosen pick look from last year when you have to dump a first round QB after ONE YEAR? That is some epic poo. 

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1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Reference Jon Beason's comments about the JR and Gettleman relationship and his quip about it being "one big ego trip" or something similar. It's been mentioned by some other journalists/beat writers as well. 

I mean, if you want hard evidence, that's probably going to be pretty slim. Anything is going to be basically anecdotal. 

I don't expect we will find a smoking gun of him shouting "I HAVE AN ENORMOUS EGO!!!"

No it's not.. Simple Gettelmen Hubris getting the best of him..

He thought he could replace Josh Norman without FA and 1 draft..

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also lmao at anybody still bitching about gettleman qualifying their opinions by saying “but i also think marty is a terrible gm fwiw” when they don’t critique anything marty does to a fraction of the amount that they’re willing to critique gettleman, even though marty is the current GM and gettleman has been gone for almost two years...

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Just so we're clear. You guys do understand that @frash.exe is so far down the rabbit hole with this Gettleman thing that he's basically hoping our 2019 draft class is a failure because Hurney's name is attached to it, right?

You can call it what you want. But that's the gist of it.

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4 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

No it's not.. Simple Gettelmen Hubris getting the best of him..

He thought he could replace Josh Norman without FA and 1 draft..

Yeah, you can read ego into that(I certainly do) but it's not real tangible evidence. I think the whole body of work certainly seems to have a lot of strong evidence that Gettleman has some ego issues.

And let's also step back a minute and say that having somewhat of an inflated ego is not necessarily a negative thing. I am sure most of these General Managers are pretty heavily alpha type personalities, which would tend to go with some amount of egotism. However, when being that egotistical starts to significantly impact your better judgement then it becomes a problem. In my opinion, that seems to be the case with Gettleman. Look at the ample amounts of ex-players that absolutely despise the guy. And it seemed like some of his moves were specifically designed to fug over certain players(in NY and here) rather than have the best interests of the organization at heart.

I don't care what your talent level is at your job, if you are in a position where you are managing people, that is going to eventually have an impact on your organization. Think about any dickhead boss that ANY of us has ever had. Do they sometimes get results? Sure. But that dysfunction and negativity will eventually permeate any organization. In our case, I think having a "player's coach" like Rivera probably tempered some of those impacts but I have no doubts that it still effected some of our players. Some were pretty obvious to us. Even more are becoming obvious to the NY Giants fans.

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4 minutes ago, frash.exe said:

also lmao at anybody still bitching about gettleman qualifying their opinions by saying “but i also think marty is a terrible gm fwiw” when they don’t critique anything marty does to a fraction of the amount that they’re willing to critique gettleman, even though marty is the current GM and gettleman has been gone for almost two years...

Untrue. I have consistently skewered him on this past draft. I do not think it was a good draft and that trade up was dumb as hell, IMO. 

But even most objective people have given Hurney credit for the free agency signings. It has, on paper, been a pretty damn great offseason for us. Time will tell if that amounts to much on the field. A pretty good chunk of his signings last offseason never even saw the field due to injuries, so those were obviously a bust.

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“hey guys listen to me wax lyrical about why i think our last GM sucks for these however many reasons...what? the guy currently running the team is terrible too, but that’s not as important.”

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4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, you can read ego into that(I certainly do) but it's not real tangible evidence. I think the whole body of work certainly seems to have a lot of strong evidence that Gettleman has some ego issues.

And let's also step back a minute and say that having somewhat of an inflated ego is not necessarily a negative thing. I am sure most of these General Managers are pretty heavily alpha type personalities, which would tend to go with some amount of egotism. However, when being that egotistical starts to significantly impact your better judgement then it becomes a problem. In my opinion, that seems to be the case with Gettleman. Look at the ample amounts of ex-players that absolutely despise the guy. And it seemed like some of his moves were specifically designed to fug over certain players(in NY and here) rather than have the best interests of the organization at heart.

I don't care what your talent level is at your job, if you are in a position where you are managing people, that is going to eventually have an impact on your organization. Think about any dickhead boss that ANY of us has ever had. Do they sometimes get results? Sure. But that dysfunction and negativity will eventually permeate any organization. In our case, I think having a "player's coach" like Rivera probably tempered some of those impacts but I have no doubts that it still effected some of our players. Some were pretty obvious to us. Even more are becoming obvious to the NY Giants fans.

Not getting involved in this argument but the almost God like worshipping Gman gets here is annoying..

Dude made mistakes just like Hurney did and got fired..

It's okay to be cold and calculating but you better win titles and be better at calculating..

You can constantly get rid of whole positions groups in 1 offseason over and over again..

 

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20 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Untrue. I have consistently skewered him on this past draft. I do not think it was a good draft and that trade up was dumb as hell, IMO. 

But even most objective people have given Hurney credit for the free agency signings. It has, on paper, been a pretty damn great offseason for us. Time will tell if that amounts to much on the field. A pretty good chunk of his signings last offseason never even saw the field due to injuries, so those were obviously a bust.

That's such a dumb argument by Gman ppl.. 

We gave Gman the same credit and criticism and being objective on his moves then, as we do with Hurney now.. Difference is Hurney isn't getting the benefit of the doubt like Gman got..

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10 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Not getting involved in this argument but the almost God like worshipping Gman gets here is annoying..

Dude made mistakes just like Hurney did and got fired..

It's okay to be cold and calculating but you better win titles and be better at calculating..

You can constantly get rid of whole positions groups in 1 offseason over and over again..

 

Exactly. He was fired for ample and GOOD reasons, same as Hurney. It's fine to be an egotistical asshole when you are producing results, when that starts to fade(as it did) people excuse you a hell of a lot less for being an egotistical asshole.

2 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

That's such a dumb argument by Gman ppl.. 

We gave Gman the same credit and criticism and being objective on his moves than as we do with Hurney now.. Difference is Hurney isn't getting the benefit of the doubt like Gman got..

No. Admittedly the fact that he got run out of here once is going to naturally give Hurney a shorter leash. I completely understand that. It's fine for people to differ in opinions based on his moves but this cult like following of Dave Gettleman is super annoying. He's off ruining some other team. 

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2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Exactly. He was fired for ample and GOOD reasons, same as Hurney. It's fine to be an egotistical asshole when you are producing results, when that starts to fade(as it did) people excuse you a hell of a lot less for being an egotistical asshole.

No. Admittedly the fact that he got run out of here once is going to naturally give Hurney a shorter leash. I completely understand that. It's fine for people to differ in opinions based on his moves but this cult like following of Dave Gettleman is super annoying. He's off ruining some other team. 

I totally agree.. Hurney doesn't get nor does he deserve to.. It's okay to take a wait and see and judge each move as it comes and proves out..

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2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Reference Jon Beason's comments about the JR and Gettleman relationship and his quip about it being "one big ego trip" or something similar. It's been mentioned by some other journalists/beat writers as well. 

I mean, if you want hard evidence, that's probably going to be pretty slim. Anything is going to be basically anecdotal. 

I don't expect we will find a smoking gun of him shouting "I HAVE AN ENORMOUS EGO!!!"

Beason, JNo, Deangelo, Smitty... all players that had issues with him, were high profile cuts made by him, and by all accounts did not take kindly to the process.

Meanwhile, Michael Oher and Kenjon Barner have both spoken very highly of Gettleman. The accusations of ego have come from players that felt slighted by him.

That really doesn't give much credit to the narrative.

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